last chance for acrylics

[BWP]

I've found that Gunze "Mr Levelling Thinner" not only works wonderfully with Gunze Aqueous, but also Tamiya. By "working wonderfully" I mean it significantly improves the hairy-brush functionality of both paint types (although as noted above, Gunze is inherently better than Tamiya at that any way). Of course this is the cellulose component of the thinner adding "bite" to the paint.

I've not had extensive experience with airbrushing, but the experience I have had (mostly with Tamiya and Life Color) has been acceptable to me. I've had airbrush problems, certainly, but mostly they were down to my lack of experience with the technique, not problems with the paint.

I've used Life Color's own thinner, and plain water. Both work equally well so far as I can tell. Ditto for Tamiya paints and Tamiya thinner, no better (or worse) than using water. (But in future I will probably stick to Gunze Mr Levelling Thinner when using Tamiya paints.)

I've never used Vallejo or any of the other similar brands that have popped up in the last few years. They're way more expensive than the other brands here in Australia, and don't offer anything I can't manage with the other cheaper brands, so I see no point in making that investment.

Revell paints are as rare as hen's teeth in these parts, and in any case Revell's "we'll produce all the colours you don't want, and make none of the colours you do want" philosophy annoys me to no end. I have only very limited experience with Humbrol acrylics, but they thin just fine with water. (Also, Humbrol's marketing philosophy annoys me almost as much as Revell's.)

I have obtained a bottle of the much-lauded "Ultimate Acrylic Thinner" but have not yet had reason to try it out for myself. I'll give it a go if/when I'm in a position to operate my airbrush again (my domestic arrangements currently do not favour airbrush use).

An interesting rumour I noted recently was that Sovereign Hobbies were investigating the creation of an acrylic paint line to match their WEM enamel range. If that ever actually comes to pass I think that would be worth investigating as the WEM enamels impress me mightily with their accuracy in colour depictions. The fact that the owner of Sovereign Models is on record as deeply despising existing acrylic paints suggests that any new paint range he comes up with would have to be good stuff indeed for him to think it worth the effort.

As for "secret acrylic techniques" or anything like that, I think that's nonsense, and personally I dislike the suggestion that people who prefer acrylics over enamels are weird cultists or anything like that. I used enamels for many years, and I switched to acrylics because I much prefer the easier clean-up. If acrylics had given me the grief that some people have experienced than I would have just grit my teeth and switched back to enamels -- but I've not had any of that sort of grief, so it hasn't been an issue for me. The only "secret technique" that isn't really a secret, and yet many people seem to ignore, is prime the model before painting. Use any primer you like (I prefer Tamiya Fine out of a spray can), so long as you use it. Acrylics, as a general rule, don't give good coverage on bare plastic. That's it.

[rob_van_riel]

As for "secret acrylic techniques" or anything like that, I think that's nonsense, and personally I dislike the suggestion that people who prefer acrylics over enamels are weird cultists or anything like that.

Techniques aren't secret, in fact, several people have explained to me how they do it, only to have any attempt at reproducing their results fail during my tests. Either there is some part of the technique most forget to mention, or there's a lot about using acrylics that is not generally understood. Sadly, for some people, acrylics are a religion, and anyone challenging their magnificence a heathen to be loudly derided. I leave it to your imagination how fabulous my encouters with such types tend to be

I used enamels for many years, and I switched to acrylics because I much prefer the easier clean-up. If acrylics had given me the grief that some people have experienced than I would have just grit my teeth and switched back to enamels -- but I've not had any of that sort of grief, so it hasn't been an issue for me.

No gritting of teeth involved for me, enamels work perfectly well for me. For now. I expect to see the time when the H&S/environment lobbies will take my enamels away from me, quite possibly on very short notice. I mean to be prepared..

The only "secret technique" that isn't really a secret, and yet many people seem to ignore, is prime the model before painting. Use any primer you like (I prefer Tamiya Fine out of a spray can), so long as you use it. Acrylics, as a general rule, don't give good coverage on bare plastic. That's it.

Well, documented, as you say, but in my experience, not enough by itself.

[rob_van_riel]

I wonder if the local chemists will understand the concept of IPA

Confirmed, unfortunately . Mail order is the only option. Fortunately, it's cheap enough to buy in bulk, but it's yet another stockpile to store and manage

[jamesaw]

Ditto on the Tamiya. I use it straight out of the jar in a Badger 150 at about 15 psi. The added bonus with the Tamiya is that they give you such a minute amount of paint in the jar, you're lucky to cover a 1/72 Spitfire before you run out!

[JohnRatzenberger]

I wonder if the local chemists will understand the concept of IPA

Confirmed, unfortunately . Mail order is the only option. Fortunately, it's cheap enough to buy in bulk, but it's yet another stockpile to store and manage

Seriously ? IPA over here = Isopropyl Acohol, used for cleaning wounds, other stuff.
I get 91% at any drugstore/pharmacy, and other places, very inexpensively maybe $2/pint.

[rob_van_riel]

I wonder if the local chemists will understand the concept of IPA

Confirmed, unfortunately . Mail order is the only option. Fortunately, it's cheap enough to buy in bulk, but it's yet another stockpile to store and manage

Seriously ? IPA over here = Isopropyl Acohol, used for cleaning wounds, other stuff.
I get 91% at any drugstore/pharmacy, and other places, very inexpensively maybe $2/pint.

I'm fairly certain IPA is the same stuff everywhere, but it's hardly used here. The medics use ethanol, typically with some additives to discourage drinking it. My best shot would be an electronics repair shop, but the nearest isn't exactly local either. I can get it by mail order for about 10 Euro/litre, which is still dirt cheap. Suppliers would be either the electronics folks (my current stash comes from Farnell, which may or may not be a well known name depending on how close to electronics you are), or lab suppliers.

I don't know how pharmacies over there operate, but most of those here are nothing more than sellers of pre-packaged medicine. One of the local ones told me I might have a chance at their more advanced collegues at the nearest hospital that still actually prepare medication, but like the electronics shop, that's not exactly local. Or he could special order it for me, for 25 Euro for half a litre At that price, I think I'll stick with mail order..

I did of course try the cheaper and readily available alcohol as a thinner, but it was barely better than water. Well, OK, quite bit better, but the difference between large drops or little drops of paint isn't all that significant..

[JohnRatzenberger]

Thanks for the explanation, Rob - quite different.

[Softscience]

What is IPA?

Not the stuff I drink way too much of, I presume.

[rob_van_riel]

What is IPA?

Not the stuff I drink way too much of, I presume.

IPA, or isopropylalcohol to give it's full name, is just another chemical compound really; see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isopropyl_alcohol;. Closely related to ethanol, which is (hopefully) what you drink. Check the toxicology bit for reasons why you cont want to confuse the two for internal use.
You could dig into chemical alcoholic lore from the links on that page too, if you're so inclined (but be advised this is considered hard science..). Best not to ingest any ethanol before digging in, as the text will be quite sufficient to leave you dazed and dizzy

What makes it interesting for us, is that it is a rather excellent solvent, which happens to work well as airbrush thinner several acrylic paints.

[Dazzled]

It's also known as Isopropanol for short. It's commercially available as an industrial use surface preparation cleaner stocked by hardware and electronics shops (RS, for instance) so maybe the pharmacist isn't your only option Rob

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/multi-pur ... s/9054542/

[Softscience]

What is IPA?

Not the stuff I drink way too much of, I presume.

IPA, or isopropylalcohol to give it's full name, is just another chemical compound really; see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isopropyl_alcohol;. Closely related to ethanol, which is (hopefully) what you drink. Check the toxicology bit for reasons why you cont want to confuse the two for internal use.
You could dig into chemical alcoholic lore from the links on that page too, if you're so inclined (but be advised this is considered hard science..). Best not to ingest any ethanol before digging in, as the text will be quite sufficient to leave you dazed and dizzy

What makes it interesting for us, is that it is a rather excellent solvent, which happens to work well as airbrush thinner several acrylic paints.

Okay, that's what I thought you meant. Strange that it is difficult for you to find. It's everywhere here (in the states), and I have a veritable lifetime supply.

Are there European import bans?

[rob_van_riel]

Okay, that's what I thought you meant. Strange that it is difficult for you to find. It's everywhere here (in the states), and I have a veritable lifetime supply.

Are there European import bans?

Nothing so obvious. It's perfectly legal to buy this stuff. The problem is (I suspect) far more insidious than a mere ban.

People, in general, are intentionally stupid and terrified of responsibility. This is both the intent of the people themselves, since being clever takes effort, and if you're trying to be clever and fail, you can't put the blame on anyone else, and of the companies and governments selling to them, as it makes people easy to exploit and control. Thus people will buy some basic chemical mixed with snakeoil, perfume, and glitzy marketing for insane prices if it's clearly marked for a very specific purpose, while being all but terrified of the very chemical they're unwittingly using. Acetone, caustic soda/lye, and IPA are prime examples; "scary" sounding chemicals most people won't touch with the proverbial ten foot pole, but buy and use with abandon when sold as "nailpolish remover", "drain cleaner", "oven cleaner", or "contact spray".

That takes care of 95% of the market, in itself quite enough to make it hard to obtain.

Sometimes, society will go the extra mile on a product. Take, for example, acetone. In it's pure form, it has any number of uses. If sold as such by default, everything would be fine, but in the situation outlined, most of the "innocent" uses are covered by the overpriced adulterated versions. That increases the proportion of not so innocent uses for the market that is left. Acetone is a precursor to some explosives. Cue massive paranoia and scaremongering, because "you don't need it, and terrorists do". We're now at the point that "suspicious transactions" of acetone have to be reported (Euro politicians with a need to be seen to do something ). So, if I buy it at the local chemist, they have a self imposed limit of 2 100ml bottles per person, while the local paint store will still happily send me a gallon and think nothing of it. I use quite a bit of acetone for cleaning anything that comes into contact with paint, so I'm seriously considering a fairly ridiculous stockpile of it, before this goes any further and I'm denied the stuff completely.

I suspect something similar is happening to IPA. My recent searches have shown it is also used to produce cannabis oil. Throw the term into Google, and combined with geolocation putting me in The Netherlands, half the hits that come up are about just that. I suspect this means it's sale is being subtly discouraged in 'polite society'. Given the local cannabis culture, I also suspect it might well be most readily available in the semi-legal drugs scene (itself an excercise in political hypocrisy if ever there was one). This is not a scene I can afford to be associated with, so I won't investigate.

[splash]

Sorry for coming into the conversation late, when we talk about IPA am I talking about the same subject when I say surgical sprit?

If so, chemists in the UK are quite happy to sell you cheap small quantities, I used to use it with tamiya acrylics and it worked well but does smell a bit so I changed back to Tamiya thinners (its expensive but does work) more recently I have changed over to Mr Color Levelling Thinner a 400ml bottle costs about £11, cheaper than Tamiya but not as cheap as surgical spirt,

The Mr Color Levelling thinners does what it says on the tin, I think they have added a retardant into it to slow the drying time to allow the self levelling effect to work.

[Dazzled]

Same stuff Splash. The same stuff as they rub on your arm before a jab.

[chrism]

Here a 250ml bottle of "BP" refined surgical spirit is readily available in any chemist shop and medical aisle in large supermarkets. It is a purer refined product for medical use, than the stuff that you can also buy in Pet-Whatever shops by the 2 and 5-litre drum