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Is it just me or have kit prices gone up?
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 Post subject: Re: Is it just me or have kit prices gone up?
PostPosted: October 13th, 2017, 1:27 pm 
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VickersVandal wrote:
I think kit manufacturers have responded to market demands in making more complex, detailed kits and therefore the prices have gone up. For some of the older, more basic Revell and Airfix kits the prices are still around the same level they always were, adjusting for inflation. Airfix new tool kits are often significantly more costly than their older brethren.

Absolutely VV, spot on. This is one of the (many) reasons I am put off the new toolings and prefer older, simpler kits. A big hike in price (along with the added and sometimes unnecessary complexity) keep me favouring the older kits, particularly the re-releases because, as you rightly say, they still offer reasonable value even today.

A good example of this is the new tool Airfix 1/72 Supermarine Swift. The Swift is not a big aeroplane and if Airfix had tooled it back in the good old days of the 60s and 70s it would probably have been a Series 1 or 2 kit and if re-released today would be typically around £5 - £7. Yes, of course I realise it would have been a lot more basic, more crude and a lot less detailed but with a good paint job it still would have looked like a Swift.

But the last time I looked the new-tool Swift in my local hobby store it was around £15, that's nearly three times the cost for what is quite a small plane. Yes, I appreciate it will be far better engineered, far more detailed and probably more accurate, but that is still quite a big jump in price.

There are many examples of this sort of jump. The '79/'80 tolling of the Lancaster was about £16 until it's deletion, and it was a nice kit and built up well. The replacement new-tool is around £31 rrp. So that's nearly twice the price for effectively the same aeroplane. Again, I appreciate that it will offer more detail and accuracy etc. etc. but it's still a jump in price that's too steep for my taste.

And don't get me started on the price of the Shakleton... I'm sure it's a lovely kit but £45, seriously?

But Airfix are in business, and they are not stupid, they know that the hobby has moved away from youngsters with pocket money and onto middle aged people with a much larger disposable income and they are prepared to pay it.


As for the price of second hand kits, yes, these too are going up in price. Every year since 2009 I have been going to the Southern Expo in March. Every year I grab a few old CBKs from the dealers to keep me building for the next 12 months, but this year I noticed a big jump up in prices from some of these dealers, and I challenged a few of them about it. They quoted things like increasing rarity, condition etc. etc. to justify the jump, but some of these price hikes were quite staggering. For example, a few years back I could pick up old, small Frog kits for £5 or £6 but this year the same dealer had the same kits labelled up at £20 - £22! :shock: That's a big jump when the only justification is that they a bit rarer nowadays......

Thankfully, if you wait until the show's about to close you can do some, erm, 'negotiation'.

So, in answer to your question Stamford, yes!

I can't comment about Ebay as I never use it.

Zee28


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Is it just me or have kit prices gone up?
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 Post subject: Re: Is it just me or have kit prices gone up?
PostPosted: October 13th, 2017, 6:36 pm 
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Zee28 wrote:
A good example of this is the new tool Airfix 1/72 Supermarine Swift. The Swift is not a big aeroplane and if Airfix had tooled it back in the good old days of the 60s and 70s it would probably have been a Series 1 or 2 kit and if re-released today would be typically around £5 - £7. Yes, of course I realise it would have been a lot more basic, more crude and a lot less detailed but with a good paint job it still would have looked like a Swift.

But the last time I looked the new-tool Swift in my local hobby store it was around £15, that's nearly three times the cost for what is quite a small plane. Yes, I appreciate it will be far better engineered, far more detailed and probably more accurate, but that is still quite a big jump in price.

Of course, the old kits recouped the Capital Outlay for their toolings decades ago - we are still paying for all those lovely new tools :roll:

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Is it just me or have kit prices gone up?
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 Post subject: Re: Is it just me or have kit prices gone up?
PostPosted: October 13th, 2017, 8:39 pm 
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I can definitely tell the difference between the older Airfix kits and the newer ones. I recently bought an old Airfix Defiant kit off eBay USA. It cost me $5.00 plus shipping. Then I purchased the newer release. Cost me $22.50! WOW, that's quite a jump! But when I built the older release, I was taken aback by its simplicity and bare-bones nature. I open the newer release kit and was amazed at how much more my money bought me in terms of detail and quality.

I'm thinking of buying the new Airfix B-17 kit. It's my favorite WWII plane and I've heard that it is light-years ahead of the old kit. But the price! :shock:

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Is it just me or have kit prices gone up?
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 Post subject: Re: Is it just me or have kit prices gone up?
PostPosted: October 16th, 2017, 7:56 pm 
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I'm building the B17 at the moment. It's a beautiful kit and you'll have the same culture shock when you compare it to the old version. Sadly the wheels are non-retractable on the new one! :grin:


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Is it just me or have kit prices gone up?
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 Post subject: Re: Is it just me or have kit prices gone up?
PostPosted: October 16th, 2017, 8:25 pm 
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Ratch wrote:
Of course, the old kits recouped the Capital Outlay for their toolings decades ago - we are still paying for all those lovely new tools :roll:


I'll point out that this is only true if ownership of the tooling doesn't change hands. When Hornby bought the Airfix brand after the last administration they paid for the intellectual property and the tool bank, albeit at a likely much discounted price in real terms than the initial outlay required to create it. So, effectively Hornby had to pay for the tools again.

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Is it just me or have kit prices gone up?
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 Post subject: Re: Is it just me or have kit prices gone up?
PostPosted: October 16th, 2017, 8:35 pm 
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Zee28 wrote:
A good example of this is the new tool Airfix 1/72 Supermarine Swift. The Swift is not a big aeroplane and if Airfix had tooled it back in the good old days of the 60s and 70s it would probably have been a Series 1 or 2 kit and if re-released today would be typically around £5 - £7. Yes, of course I realise it would have been a lot more basic, more crude and a lot less detailed but with a good paint job it still would have looked like a Swift.

Zee28


But, you can get a kit like this. The old Hawk/Testors Swift FR.5 can be had quite cheaply on the second hand market if all you want is something that looks like a Swift. It will probably be reissued at some point in the future. The thing is that many modelers want the additional detail the new kit provides and there isn't much sense in Airfix duplicating something that already exists. I bought several copies of the Swift with a view to building the earlier and later versions and also built one out of the box as an FR.5. I thought it was excellent value for money and a great build.

Your post does highlight this basic schizophrenia that modelers have between wanting their hobby to be taken seriously and also expecting to pay (1970's) pocket money prices for quality kits. Plenty of the older kits are still available very cheaply from various sources. I, for one, would not want manufacturers to go back to those standards when the possibilities are so much greater.

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Is it just me or have kit prices gone up?
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 Post subject: Re: Is it just me or have kit prices gone up?
PostPosted: October 17th, 2017, 4:37 pm 
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VMA131Marine wrote:
Zee28 wrote:
A good example of this is the new tool Airfix 1/72 Supermarine Swift. The Swift is not a big aeroplane and if Airfix had tooled it back in the good old days of the 60s and 70s it would probably have been a Series 1 or 2 kit and if re-released today would be typically around £5 - £7. Yes, of course I realise it would have been a lot more basic, more crude and a lot less detailed but with a good paint job it still would have looked like a Swift.

Zee28


But, you can get a kit like this. The old Hawk/Testors Swift FR.5 can be had quite cheaply on the second hand market if all you want is something that looks like a Swift. It will probably be reissued at some point in the future. The thing is that many modelers want the additional detail the new kit provides and there isn't much sense in Airfix duplicating something that already exists. I bought several copies of the Swift with a view to building the earlier and later versions and also built one out of the box as an FR.5. I thought it was excellent value for money and a great build.

Your post does highlight this basic schizophrenia that modelers have between wanting their hobby to be taken seriously and also expecting to pay (1970's) pocket money prices for quality kits. Plenty of the older kits are still available very cheaply from various sources. I, for one, would not want manufacturers to go back to those standards when the possibilities are so much greater.



To be fair, this is NOT what I said NOR what I inferred. You have only interpreted a small part of my post very flexibly just to make your (otherwise) valid point. If you re-read the WHOLE of my post you will see that what you have said regarding my standpoint is somewhat distorted by your reply. Allow me to illustrate:


VMA131Marine wrote:
But, you can get a kit like this. The old Hawk/Testors Swift FR.5 can be had quite cheaply on the second hand market if all you want is something that looks like a Swift

Yes, I know, I am an old kit enthusiast. And if I wanted a Swift (which, at the moment, I do not) I may go that way.


VMA131Marine wrote:
there isn't much sense in Airfix duplicating something that already exists.

Of course there isn't, but where did I say they should?


VMA131Marine wrote:
I bought several copies of the Swift with a view to building the earlier and later versions and also built one out of the box as an FR.5. I thought it was excellent value for money and a great build.

I am glad you enjoyed it and I am sure it is an excellent kit. But I'm not entirely sure about it being "excellent value for money", Reasonably good value? Possibly, but maybe not "excellent". It may relate, of course, to one's own personal financial position as well. And everyone is different in that respect.


VMA131Marine wrote:
Your post does highlight this basic schizophrenia that modelers have between wanting their hobby to be taken seriously and also expecting to pay (1970's) pocket money prices for quality kits.

I certainly do NOT suffer from any schizophrenia and I certainly do NOT expect to pay 1970s pocket money prices, not for one moment.
I obviously expect newly tooled kits to be appreciably more expensive. 1) Because they are general better and 2) The need to recoup the tooling costs for the manufacturer.
The point I was trying to make (obviously unsuccessfully) is they can often be a WHOLE LOT more expensive, sometimes appearing to be disproportionally so.


VMA131Marine wrote:
Plenty of the older kits are still available very cheaply from various sources.

As I (and others) said, not as cheaply as they used to be, and if you re-read my WHOLE post I also talk about the increasing cost of older classic kits that has been observed recently.


VMA131Marine wrote:
I, for one, would not want manufacturers to go back to those standards when the possibilities are so much greater.

And where, exactly, did I suggest they should???? I didn't.



I am a fan of older, simpler kits for various reasons, least of all cost, mainly I prefer them for my own personal reasons (eg. Simplcity, nostalgia etc.) but I don't really need to justify that here. This is why I joined the forum, this forum, which is home of the Classic British Kit SIG.

That does NOT mean I have anything against modern kits or (more importantly) those that build them. Modelling, like a lot of hobbies, have personal preferences. I just feel that the new toolings are (occasionally) disproportionally quite costly.

Thank you for allowing me to clarify my position.

Regards,

Zee28


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Is it just me or have kit prices gone up?
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 Post subject: Re: Is it just me or have kit prices gone up?
PostPosted: October 20th, 2017, 4:26 am 
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What prices haven't gone up?

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Is it just me or have kit prices gone up?
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PostPosted: November 27th, 2017, 9:10 am 
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What prices haven't gone up? Computers, Domestic Goods, cars etc


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Is it just me or have kit prices gone up?
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 Post subject: Re: Is it just me or have kit prices gone up?
PostPosted: November 27th, 2017, 6:38 pm 
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I buy old and/or second hand kits,they are cheaper and have no fiddly parts for me to lose. :-D


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Is it just me or have kit prices gone up?
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 Post subject: Re: Is it just me or have kit prices gone up?
PostPosted: November 28th, 2017, 9:54 pm 
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I fully expect to pay just as much for old CBKs as I do new tool kits these days.

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Is it just me or have kit prices gone up?
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 Post subject: Re: Is it just me or have kit prices gone up?
PostPosted: November 29th, 2017, 1:42 am 
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Sir T wrote:
I fully expect to pay just as much for old CBKs as I do new tool kits these days.

Hi SirT,I have bought a couple of Frog kits at £4.99 and £3.99 from King Kit,a bargain when the average price of a model in my LMS is £9.99.


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Is it just me or have kit prices gone up?
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 Post subject: Re: Is it just me or have kit prices gone up?
PostPosted: November 29th, 2017, 8:41 pm 
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Blimey yes, kit prices have gone up. An Airfix Mustang used to cost 2 shillings, which translates to about 10P. That was, of course, in 1958. Now it (though retooled several times) costs about £8. That's an increase of ..... can't be bothered to even think about it.

As for the Shackleton at £45, I bought one yesterday at a well known discount store (TK-Max) for £24.99. Or rather, my wife bought it. Think of all that Christmas shopping angst I have saved her! Yet even at this discounted price, someone is clearly still making a profit!


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Is it just me or have kit prices gone up?
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PostPosted: November 29th, 2017, 9:19 pm 
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vacant wrote:
Blimey yes, kit prices have gone up. An Airfix Mustang used to cost 2 shillings, which translates to about 10P. That was, of course, in 1958. Now it (though retooled several times) costs about £8. That's an increase of ..... can't be bothered to even think about it.


I did it for you. Using a website herehttp://inflation.stephenmorley.org/

2/- in 1958 is equivalent of £2.22 now. I.E. inflation over the period is a multiplier of 22.2. The increase from 2/- to £8 would be a multiplier of 80. So the question is: is the new Airfix P-51D worth 3.6 times (80/22.2) the old one?

David
PS - I am not serious about any of these numbers and I may well have miscalculated somewhere. I just couldn't resist.


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PostPosted: November 30th, 2017, 12:21 am 
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celt wrote:
Sir T wrote:
I fully expect to pay just as much for old CBKs as I do new tool kits these days.

Hi SirT,I have bought a couple of Frog kits at £4.99 and £3.99 from King Kit,a bargain when the average price of a model in my LMS is £9.99.


Ah true (king kit are good), but what did you pay for shipping?

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