The Unofficial Airfix Modellers' Forum

Do you really need to put a gloss coat on before decals?

I'm getting tired of trying my best to get a decent paint finish with a hairy stick - to then have it runied by blooming awful clear coats. So far I've tried both types of Humbrols clears, their sprays and W&N Galeria - and I don't seem to have luck with any. the Galeria is the best of the bunch but even then I'm getting really bad air-bubbles and no matter how much I thin it it just won't flow (even with flow enhancer).

Any idea's? I'd like to have something that goes on like water. I could use heavily thinned enamels but I can't use them in the house.

The clear coating really is the bain of my life!

Cheers!

Stuart

Test the decals on a similarly painted surface -- same paint, colors, etc.
May depend on the decal quality and the amount of clear film between (letters, etc).
Some times a good solvent will be enough to tame it.

BTW, I agree with you.

I've never tried spraying W & N varnish so can't help with that Stuart I'm afraid; even if I've sprayed the underlying paint, I just brush the gloss on. If l have to spray varnish l use Xtracrylix matt or gloss, thinned at least 50/50 with plain water and must it on in very fine coats.
W & N do make a flow enhancer, which you can get from Hobbycraft and The Range but I've only used it with Humbrol and Revell acrylic so far!

Stuart,

I use an old bottle of Future floor acrylic and it brushes on beautifully.

David

jRatz wrote:Test the decals on a similarly painted surface -- same paint, colors, etc.
May depend on the decal quality and the amount of clear film between (letters, etc).
Some times a good solvent will be enough to tame it.

BTW, I agree with you.

Thanks John.

iggie wrote:I've never tried spraying W & N varnish so can't help with that Stuart I'm afraid; even if I've sprayed the underlying paint, I just brush the gloss on. If l have to spray varnish l use Xtracrylix matt or gloss, thinned at least 50/50 with plain water and must it on in very fine coats.
W & N do make a flow enhancer, which you can get from Hobbycraft and The Range but I've only used it with Humbrol and Revell acrylic so far!

When I first got the W&N it went on beautifully, now I'm having bad problems with thickness and air bubbles - I don't spray it either but use a brush. Obviously it needs thinning but I've not had much luck - what do you try/use iggie?

dwomby wrote:Stuart,

I use an old bottle of Future floor acrylic and it brushes on beautifully.

David

I hear good things about future but I know it's called something else here in the UK - I've never known what product/bottle to get.

Cheers

Stuart

Stu, this is the same stuff. Unfortunately only available in the US. It's expensive but a bottle will last you for years.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/S-C-JOHNSON- ... 23944775dc


Another one you could try is Vallejo's water based acrylic varnish. In my experience it brushes on very well although it's a bit thin.

I learnt a very long time ago (mid 1970's) to use gloss clear before decalling, and then the appropriate clear over the top to continue finishing. My 1/72 sacle Revell Uhu and P-51D both used this rule, the Uhu's finish has not been touched since 1981.
I use whatever clear is necessary for what I'm doing. Humbrol, Gunze, Tamiya, Testors, Vallejo, even still have some Airfix, never a problem when sprayed, brushing can be your downfall if you use too much (ask me how I know) or don't mix it enough or mix in a little thinners (of the correct type) to help with brush marks and humidity "bloom".
Hope this helps

Funny you should say this Stuart because I too have been having problems.

My process has always been the same for many years. I airbrush the paint job, then brush on a coat of Johnson's 'Klear' (AKA 'Future') to gloss it up, then I put the decals on, then finally finish off by airbrushing a coat of Mattcote or Satincote to remove the glossiness. I never sprayed the Klear because it had such good self-levelling ability that brushing it seemed fine.

But I have just ruined my current build because the Klear suddenly stopped self levelling and instead created loads of little bubbles all over the model. I have no idea why, I didn't do anything different but when I returned to the model the following day there were bubbles everywhere and the surface felt rough, very annoying.

I do feel that decaling is certainly easier and more successful over a glossy surface, particularly to reduce silvering, but I am very uneasy about reaching for the Klear again after my last experience.

I have always used Micorsol to soften decals and make them conform, but it struggles on a matt surface to remove silvering. But interestingly Humbrol have launched their 'New formula' Decalfix and in the video below (at around 2 mins 24 secs) they claim that, by using the new product, that you can decal straight onto a matt surface without problems (quite a claim!).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7Ywau87mo4;

I haven't tried it yet, so I cannot endorse the claim and I am apprehensive because the old formula Decalfix was a bit rubbish. Plus, as can be seen in the video, they suggest no use of water at all. They suggest you float the decal in Decalfix, brush yet more Decalfix onto the model under the decal, then again over the decal.

It might be worth a try mate and (arguably) removes the need for a pre-decaling gloss coat (if it works as claimed).

Zee28

Interesting video. Thank you.

Zee28 wrote: Plus, as can be seen in the video, they suggest no use of water at all. They suggest you float the decal in Decalfix, brush yet more Decalfix onto the model under the decal, then again over the decal.

Personally, I'd like to give the stuff a try.
I noticed for the larger decal, they applied it onto Humbrol gloss paint. Of course Humbrol will test on Humbrol products where it will work well. It could mean a lot of trial and error, depending on what finish its applied to. I have already had one nightmare with Walthers SolvaSet and quickly learned not to create pools of liquid. Seems to me, that's what they suggest you do here.

I know, mom said 'Your own fault, you should have tested first'. Few of us, I believe, have that kind of patience.

I'm currently using Vallejo Gloss varnish thinned with some 'Astonish' [just like 'Klear'/'Future']. Its about a 1:1 mix. I put it on with a wide flat brush. It takes about 3 coats to get a really glossy finish.
Its quite quick to dry, but slow enough for me to keep going over it with a wet brush to eliminate air bubbles and brush strokes, I find it can take longer getting a good varnish finish than doing the camo job.
For matt varnishing after decaling I'm using Valejo Matt varnish thinned about 3V to 2 water. It takes several coats, maybe 3, to get it even looking

I usually brush paint Revell's varnishes. They tend not to need much stirring if any and I would also make sure your brushes are very clean if you brush varnish on.

A can of Halfords clear will do the job and if you do birds it will last ages.

I find warmth of the painting environment and the actual paint/clear cote very important. For me it even affects how well
decal softeners work.

mylo66 wrote:I find warmth of the painting environment and the actual paint/clear cote very important. For me it even affects how well
decal softeners work.

I've wondered about that - I'll try heating the bottle in warm water for a while the next time I use it.

I've tried one or two brands, including acrylic and Klear, but have had the most reliable results with Humbrol clear coats which I stir for at least ten minutes before use, thin with cheapo white spirit and apply to the model by airbrush. I'm no scientist but I believe temperature does make a difference and that warm is preferable to cold.