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Clear coat blues
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 Post subject: Re: Clear coat blues
PostPosted: January 10th, 2018, 7:00 pm 
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Stuart wrote:

iggie wrote:
I've never tried spraying W & N varnish so can't help with that Stuart I'm afraid; even if I've sprayed the underlying paint, I just brush the gloss on. If l have to spray varnish l use Xtracrylix matt or gloss, thinned at least 50/50 with plain water and must it on in very fine coats.
W & N do make a flow enhancer, which you can get from Hobbycraft and The Range but I've only used it with Humbrol and Revell acrylic so far!


When I first got the W&N it went on beautifully, now I'm having bad problems with thickness and air bubbles - I don't spray it either but use a brush. Obviously it needs thinning but I've not had much luck - what do you try/use iggie?



I've never tried thinning it!
Are you shaking the bottle, or stirring? I've found if shaken, the bubbles last forever and some are tiny....until they dry and look rubbish!
Stir in the bottle with a coffee stick, gently and without trapping air.
I only model and paint indoors during the winter; I suspect paint (especially acrylic) is temperature sensitive, and I know I am! :-D

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Clear coat blues
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 Post subject: Re: Clear coat blues
PostPosted: January 25th, 2018, 12:29 am 
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Well another one bites the dust thanks to crap clear coats - RIP Airfix NT 262...

Image

I am completely and utterly sick of crap clear coats - certainly water based ones. I really do need to go back to enamels I think - I certainly had more consistant results.

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Clear coat blues
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 Post subject: Re: Clear coat blues
PostPosted: January 25th, 2018, 1:24 am 
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Oh heck, Stuart. I am sorry you're having such difficult timed with clearcoating but even sorrier that you felt you had to give up on what was a good looking 262.

May I ask what was the issue exactly that prompted this termination. Visible brush strokes, chalking or what?

David


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Clear coat blues
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 Post subject: Re: Clear coat blues
PostPosted: January 25th, 2018, 10:17 am 
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Aaaargh! obvs you really are having a bad time with the clear coats, Stuart, for that promising '262 to fall victim to the Heavy Mallet Flak Gun. I've tried various clear coats over the years but have settled on Humbrol, thinned with cheapo white spirit and applied by airbrush. I've seen Humbrol slated on here before though and indeed I have had issues in the past (nothing is perfect and said issues may have been the product at fault or my poor prep) but over the years Humbrol has served me the most consistently. One of the major downsides is the smell and I'm aware that prohibits the use of enamel based paints and clear coats for many modellers - I'm very fortunate to have a spare room that I can ventilate well (I'm able to throw open the windows wide, not good this time of year though!) and an understanding wife. Stir, stir, stir and then stir some more is my motto prior to thinning and application. In addition I don't use clear coat that has been kicking around in the paint stash for a long time, unlike paints themselves, as I believe that clear coat can "go off" - I have a couple of old models that I use as airbrush "test queens" that I will apply clear coat or paint to first if I have any doubts.

I really hope that you can find a product that suits - we all have our own preferences in that respect and there are no hard and fast rules.

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Clear coat blues
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 Post subject: Re: Clear coat blues
PostPosted: January 25th, 2018, 1:33 pm 
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dwomby wrote:
Oh heck, Stuart. I am sorry you're having such difficult timed with clearcoating but even sorrier that you felt you had to give up on what was a good looking 262.

May I ask what was the issue exactly that prompted this termination. Visible brush strokes, chalking or what?

David


A bit of everything David - It tooks three coats of gloss to get a decent finish prior to decalling. Then on the matt coat I added another three coats but could get it to A. Go matt, and B. have an even finsh. SO in desperation I hit it with a coat of Humbrol Matt rattle can, which evened it out but alas was very chalky (even after heating and 5 minutes of shaking). I then hit it was a coat of satin... which was a mistake - and now I have 8 coats of clear - goodbye surface detail...

That, and one of the intake centres fell out and back into the pod.

I'm having the same woes on my FROG tempest, but rather than use rattle can's I've hit it with a coat of Humbrol 'Matt Coat' with a hairy stick - thankfuly this is looking better but then like Shaun I've always had better results with well thinned whaite sprit based Clears.

Perhaps I need to try an AB (I do have one) but I've never really connected with it.

ShaunW wrote:
Aaaargh! obvs you really are having a bad time with the clear coats, Stuart, for that promising '262 to fall victim to the Heavy Mallet Flak Gun. I've tried various clear coats over the years but have settled on Humbrol, thinned with cheapo white spirit and applied by airbrush. I've seen Humbrol slated on here before though and indeed I have had issues in the past (nothing is perfect and said issues may have been the product at fault or my poor prep) but over the years Humbrol has served me the most consistently. One of the major downsides is the smell and I'm aware that prohibits the use of enamel based paints and clear coats for many modellers - I'm very fortunate to have a spare room that I can ventilate well (I'm able to throw open the windows wide, not good this time of year though!) and an understanding wife. Stir, stir, stir and then stir some more is my motto prior to thinning and application. In addition I don't use clear coat that has been kicking around in the paint stash for a long time, unlike paints themselves, as I believe that clear coat can "go off" - I have a couple of old models that I use as airbrush "test queens" that I will apply clear coat or paint to first if I have any doubts.

I really hope that you can find a product that suits - we all have our own preferences in that respect and there are no hard and fast rules.


Thanks Shaun - I do agree with the white sprit based clears - it does go on much better (as does enamel paint) - I think I'd better just put with the smell. I too thin it with normal WS.

Out of interest, how long do you keep it before you bin it? (I think my stuff is a few years old now - but made in the UK.

Cheers

Stuart

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Clear coat blues
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 Post subject: Re: Clear coat blues
PostPosted: January 25th, 2018, 1:51 pm 
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Can you humour me to be sure I understand this one example. Not sure it will result in a solution but:

3 coats to gloss it: What gloss? Over what paint? How old? Stirred? Applied by brush, I assume? A flat wide brush? Any issues with the glossing e.g. needed more coats than usual with that product and/or brush? Temperature/humidity (just your opinion - not looking for actual scientific precision) when applied? Successfully used in same circumstances before?

Ditto the matt. (BTW - I gave up on rattle can matt years ago because of chalking nearly very time I tried it)

I have also had good results with Microscale's gloss and flat clearcoats. Only ever needed one coat of gloss to decal and one coat of flat to cover.

David


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Clear coat blues
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 Post subject: Re: Clear coat blues
PostPosted: January 25th, 2018, 1:57 pm 
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Oh - I should point out that I've only used the Microscale stuff in an airbrush.

David


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Clear coat blues
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 Post subject: Re: Clear coat blues
PostPosted: January 25th, 2018, 3:35 pm 
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dwomby wrote:
Can you humour me to be sure I understand this one example. Not sure it will result in a solution but:

3 coats to gloss it: What gloss? Over what paint? How old? Stirred? Applied by brush, I assume? A flat wide brush? Any issues with the glossing e.g. needed more coats than usual with that product and/or brush? Temperature/humidity (just your opinion - not looking for actual scientific precision) when applied? Successfully used in same circumstances before?

Ditto the matt. (BTW - I gave up on rattle can matt years ago because of chalking nearly very time I tried it)

I have also had good results with Microscale's gloss and flat clearcoats. Only ever needed one coat of gloss to decal and one coat of flat to cover.

David


So here you go - these are the clears I've been using (I gave up on Humbrol water based clears years ago) thinned with humbrol thinners and a good dollop of flow ehancer. Painted with either a round or a flat brush - the round brush isn't very pointed, it just looks the way it does as I forgot to clean it. The Clears a few years old now, stirred not shaken (and no olives). I've been painting in the conservatory, but we have electric heating, so it's warm and dry.

Image

Painted over Humbrol and Hataka Acrylics.

The problems I'm getting.... I am gettign some brush strokes, but the main issue seem to be that they are drying to an uneven finish - some pooling, but mainly lack of consistancy - even after a few coats. Also no matter how much I thin them they always seem too thick. It's hard to explain but they just look crap.

The matt is the same as the clear, but it just doesn't seem very matt.

Is it just that water based clear just aren't very good?

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Clear coat blues
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 Post subject: Re: Clear coat blues
PostPosted: January 25th, 2018, 4:45 pm 
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For years I have not used enamel or lacquer clearcoats because a) they stink; and b) I often had clouding/chalking problems with the flat/matt. So I don't think that your problems are because water based clear isn't very good.

I have success with 'Future' acrylic floor polish but only brushed (airbrushing it always goes badly for me- runs, etc). I do one coat with a 1/2 inch flat brush and it is glossy enough for decals but not what I'd consider high-gloss shiny. Better for me, brushed or airbrushed, are those Microscale ones I mentioned. One coat of the gloss airbrushed is very shiny and the matt is very matt if well stirred.

Back to what you have used. I haven't used any of those but your comment 'some brush strokes, but the main issue seem to be that they are drying to an uneven finish' seems to indicate that the product is too thick or drying too fast. No criticism intended here or implied as I don't know exactly how these ones behave or what variations you've tried. I would be applying those only with a flat brush and working pretty quickly hoping to put on one thin coat. I'd expect to need to thin to almost the consistency of water. Do you a test mule - old kit to experiment on?

Also, could the conservatory air be too dry from the effect of the heating? Might that cause the clear to dry too fast?

David


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Clear coat blues
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 Post subject: Re: Clear coat blues
PostPosted: January 25th, 2018, 5:59 pm 
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Not good Stuart!

Seriously, I have never had an issue with W&N Galeria, Matt, Satin or Gloss.....and I'm sorry if you are as I think it was me that suggested them to you!

I brush mine neat from the bottle, no enhancers, no thinners no nothing. Always onto Humbrol/Revell/Tamiya acrylics and always indoors. The only issue I have ever had was cat hairs getting stuck in it, but I shot the cat; no more problems. (Joking about the shooting thing really :grin: No, honest! :-D )

Stirring, not shaking does make a difference, but never cloudiness, just a few pin-prick marks once dry.

This is seriously puzzling!

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Clear coat blues
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 Post subject: Re: Clear coat blues
PostPosted: January 25th, 2018, 6:02 pm 
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Stuart wrote:

Out of interest, how long do you keep it before you bin it? (I think my stuff is a few years old now - but made in the UK.



Once it's been opened I won't use clear coat that is more than a year old, I normally tape the date of purchase and first opening to the bottles. The oldest I have recently used was 2 years old but that had never been opened and that is about as old as I would happily go. In the past I have used older bottles of clear coat and had bubbling, yellowing and other nastiness that I put down to the age of the product, I might be wrong in that assumption but I wouldn't now chance using older stuff - in comparison as far as paints go I've used stuff that is over 20 years old on more than one occasion with absolutely no issues - in fact I've found some of the older Humbrol enamels and Tamiya acrylics to perform better than the latest product. I prefer using an airbrush to apply as I can achieve a nice even coat - my brush painting skills are too weak to manage that!

One thing I will say though is that I can't emphasize enough the need to thoroughly stir clear coat, particularly matt or satin that contains the milky looking suspension. It really is very important that the suspension is properly mixed through otherwise there is the real danger of ending up with a chalky appearance to the finished model and guess how I discovered the need to do that :roll:

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Clear coat blues
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 Post subject: Re: Clear coat blues
PostPosted: January 25th, 2018, 10:30 pm 
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Ouch, you must have been really peeved. For glossing for decals I've always brushed on Klear and almost always used Humbrol rattlecan Gloss and Matt acrylic varnishes. I've never had any bother as long the room is warm and the cans not too cold and well shaken. I've got various different acrylic varnishes from multiple brands but have yet to use them through the airbrush. I did find that Airfix Gloss Clear ( brushed on) did need more coats to give a similar shine to Johnsons Klear. One or two coats of gloss gave a decent satin / semi gloss finish.


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Clear coat blues
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PostPosted: January 25th, 2018, 11:36 pm 
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iggie wrote:
Not good Stuart!

Seriously, I have never had an issue with W&N Galeria, Matt, Satin or Gloss.....and I'm sorry if you are as I think it was me that suggested them to you!

I brush mine neat from the bottle, no enhancers, no thinners no nothing. Always onto Humbrol/Revell/Tamiya acrylics and always indoors. The only issue I have ever had was cat hairs getting stuck in it, but I shot the cat; no more problems. (Joking about the shooting thing really :grin: No, honest! :-D )

Stirring, not shaking does make a difference, but never cloudiness, just a few pin-prick marks once dry.

This is seriously puzzling!


No need to apologise Jim as I had really good results when I first started to use it - It's really strange.

From what everybody has said I'm wondering if it might have gone duff because A. I've thinned it, and B. It's a good few years old now.

Mmmmmm...

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Clear coat blues
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 Post subject: Re: Clear coat blues
PostPosted: January 26th, 2018, 12:00 am 
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I'd try new bottles, un-thinned, and un-flowed to set a benchmark. Then only try one (thinner, flower) at a time then both.
A couple new wide brushes maybe ?

I may have misinterpreted your last remark, but you haven't been thinning the product in the bottle have you ?

As several others have noted, I use Future for my under decal clear coat.

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Clear coat blues
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PostPosted: January 26th, 2018, 12:13 am 
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jRatz wrote:

I may have misinterpreted your last remark, but you haven't been thinning the product in the bottle have you ?


Yes indeed - which is why I'm thinking I may have ruined it.

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