It Costs How Much??

[MerlinJones]

Busy being a part of Britmodeller?

[peebeep]

John Adams is in his seventies, the fact that he is still able and willing to do stuff on behalf of modellers is a bonus. People don't seem to realise that it was his business partner who was really running the accessory side and when he died unexpectedly John felt unable to carry on with this. He'd like to retire and why not? He's earned it several times over in my estimation.

peebeep

[T-21]

Countless modellers are indebted to John but we need a similiar supplier ?

[peebeep]

I would think that eventually somebody will identify a gap in the market for Aeroclub type products.

peebeep

[JamesPerrin]

I would think that eventually somebody will identify a gap in the market for Aeroclub type products.

Not quite there, but Palva have brought out a number of sets, seats and canopies for older Airfix kits lie the Jet Provost not just the current releases. Of course though stuff is in resin which seems to bump up the price.

White metal seems to have largely gone out of fashion which I think is a shame as it's easy to work with. I wish resin kits would use it at least for undercarriage legs. I've not tried the near black resin that's a lot stronger but was told by Colin of Freightdog that it wears out the mould very quickly (eg 10 pieces!). I discussed white metal with him at the time and was interested to see that the AVRO 720 came with w.m. legs in the end.

[bluesteel]

I would think that eventually somebody will identify a gap in the market for Aeroclub type products.

peebeep

Ian at Heritage Aviation is moving in that direction with resin kits, conversions and metal seats. I think he's just taken on a business unit so once he's over a bit of a personal downer of a year with the death of his best friend Steve Walker in early January. But he seems to be coming back on track again with the immanent release of a resin 1/48th Chipmunk to follow up the JP and SA Bulldog. He's also got an increasing stock of reasonably priced second hand kits too.

Then of course there's A to Zee and the Alley Cat Range - 1/72 BP Balliol and Sea Balliol just being released. Also Freightdog models. I've already found another source of Aeroclub type thread (even pre-coloured from Littlecars.com). So I think if Aeroclub never comes back on stream the slack might be taken up with the likes of these. Although personally I'd like to see Aeroclub and t=its website back in business again as Hannants and Aeroclub were always my first too stops looking for all things model related.

[JohnRatzenberger]

I would think that eventually somebody will identify a gap in the market for Aeroclub type products.

Not quite there, but Palva have brought out a number of sets, seats and canopies for older Airfix kits lie the Jet Provost not just the current releases. Of course though stuff is in resin which seems to bump up the price.

White metal seems to have largely gone out of fashion which I think is a shame as it's easy to work with. I wish resin kits would use it at least for undercarriage legs. I've not tried the near black resin that's a lot stronger but was told by Colin of Freightdog that it wears out the mould very quickly (eg 10 pieces!). I discussed white metal with him at the time and was interested to see that the AVRO 720 came with w.m. legs in the end.

I can't say I'm a big w/m fan, rarely as sharp/detailed as good resin, and it bends easily. I do like that some firms, such as Silver Wings, are starting to mold metal rod into their resin struts and such to give them more strength.

[m1ks]

This is an interesting one. I've never really used aftermarket unless the 'hop up' accessories were included with the kit. Extreme accuracy on most kits doesn't bother me in the slightest, as long as out looks like its supposed to, I.e. hurricane, hurricane shaped, I don't care if the nose is a mm or two too short for example. If I were to build a kit of say one of my motorbikes specifically then i'd want it as accurate as I could achieve. The only kit to me that I've looked at aftermarket goodies for, (of which theres a good selection), is the tamiya Honda rc166, I can't justify them purely on cost as the kit itself was expensive and I don't feel i'd do them justice but by the time I get around to building out who knows I may change my mind and decide they're worth it after all. I think the ones that make me go, ' why?' Are the pe cockpit sets that get hidden under a closed canopy leaving it nigh on invisible.

[SJPONeill]

I used to buy all the after-market I could find for a new kit but one day, something just clicked off, and now I'm more into building OOB...of course, my current fad with Trumpeter's big guns means I don't need much after-market...even the supplied PE is largely superfluous...the main after-market I seek now is things like gun barrels for my paper models as the paper versions just don't look right...

[jargonking]

.....but i think the price of the stuff is very off putting.....example is the Polar Lights flying sub from Voyage to the bottom of the sea......my lms has it for about £20 and the correct aftermarket bits and pieces are £65!!!.....when i asked they have sold one in over a year!.....

If it's the Moebius 1/32 Flying Sub then £20 is about a quarter of the list price so get down there quick and snap it up!

[BillyJ]

The perception of VFM (value for money) is indeed subjective.

That said, there has to be a personal threshold whereby we have a Go/No go price.
Mine is what I perceive to be what a plastic kit of a subject in a certain scale should be sold at, rather than in many instances, it's actual asking price (RRP).

Right now, unlike the majority of the modelling public, I am not buying into the oft trotted out excuses of increased oil price, famine, currency exchange rate. increased tooling costs, nuclear disaster, earthquake, Tsunami, import tax, VAT increase, whatever excuse for the exorbitant price increases we've seen to date.

Face up - the importers/distributors/wholesalers are having one big laugh, and I do not find it it funny whatsoever.

Blame whoever you like, but if you accept the price and buy anyway, you have to accept that you and your personal perception of value for money/personal spending power are a part of the problem.

EXAMPLE: Tamiya 1/32 Spitfire - £120 for what is after all, only a plastic self-assembly toy aeroplane?

You just have to be kidding!

Remember - there's always a market - If 1/32 Spitfires stay on the shelves because no one's buying, that sends a powerful message back to the manufacturer, who, if he is smart, may ask why sales have fallen. If he decides that he has his marketing wrong, then many might say that modellers will have put him off developing the new kits they have been asking for for years. Don't worry, this is just kidology, if the demand is still there, he'll either adjust his prices, or someone else will come along and offer the same for significantly less.

MOST IMPORTANT - Vote with your feet & wallet no matter what the subject.

Final Message - Never forget that we should not allow a situation whereby the Kit manufacturers, and more importantly, their rip-off distributors/importers have us over a barrel in terms of their asking prices within their various markets.

If you pay the asking price no matter what, not only are you a part of the problem of increasing prices, you are a mug.


BJ

[BWP]

I am not buying into the oft trotted out excuses ...

You're free to buy or not buy whatever you like of course. However, I think your picture of distributors deliberately collectively extorting the modelling public is ... simplistic and probably largely inaccurate. It may well be that some distributors charge more than they need to, but that's not the same as "all distributors are out to get us".

if you accept the price and buy anyway, you have to accept that you and your personal perception of value for money/personal spending power are a part of the problem.

Only if you accept that there is a problem. Are kits still being sold in sufficient numbers to keep the various businesses involved profitable? If the answer is "yes" then it's hard to see what problem you're referring to (other than your general complaint about high kit prices).

If 1/32 Spitfires stay on the shelves because no one's buying, that sends a powerful message back to the manufacturer

Well, it may send a message to the distributor; who may send a message back to the manufacturer: "we don't want more of them, thanks". Worst case, the manufacturer stops making that type of kit and concentrates on more profitable fare. Of course none of that is likely to happen because the manufacturer has already done their market research and are confident the product will sell sufficiently well even at that high price. Of course market research can be wrong and kits can be failures; it's happened many times in the past. The inevitable result of these failures has been that those kits were removed from production. I doubt very much that any company at any time has thought that the failure of one kit has been the result of an excessive pricing structure, nor do I believe any manufacturer has ever lowered their prices across the board as a result of a marketing failure. Instead they just make more of those items that sell well.

"Vote" with your wallet, or not -- it's up to you. However I think your reason for "voting" is misguided and based on faulty analysis, and the inevitable result, if there was any result at all, would be a narrowing of the kit market to "safe" subjects and a discouragement to manufacturers to produce "special" items.

[johnsan]

I believe the example of the Tamiya Spitfire is a poor one...

Not to mention that it has been selling well to the 32nd scale community. Heck, I'm not big into 32nd and definitely don't consider Spitfires all that interesting, but I have both the VIII and the IX in my stash. Tamiya's Spit is simply a fantastic kit.

[MerlinJones]

Everyone out there is out to make a profit. If you swap 'profit' for living, it doesn't seem so harsh. We aren't talking about the price of essentials, such as bread and fuel, but the price of what is, when all's said and done, the price of a luxury item.

If the companies didn't make profit, then, especially in more restrictive economic times such as these, they go bust. Having lost FROG, Matchbox and latterly Heller (to a large extent), I'd rather not lose another.

Prices are not only determined by the manufacturer and distributor, but by the retailer at the sharp end and it is the retailers who offer us the bargain prices, should we take the time to look.

However, making profit should not be the sole aim, as customer loyalty will go and long way and can see you through the hardest of depressions. This is an elusive quality to measure and it would be foolhardy to belief that sale figures measure this componant of sales effectively.

I bought a new Airfix Hurricane yesterday.
Not because of its quality, or price, but because I wanted to engage with my new LMS owner...and Airfix have a good distribution system and of the Airfix kits available, it was the lesser of several evils. I already have the older Airfix kit, but I needed a tropical version with the filter and the Revell man was still due to deliver.

Of course, another sale to Airfix and all is rosy and they can believe that their grip of the market and its tastes are correct.

To be honest, I would've preferred any tropical Hurricane to the new Airfix, because I just want a representative of a 74 squadron machine and am not overly concerned about apparent accuracy/inaccuracy. My tolerance with Airfix and their apologists has declined and my loyalty to the brand is currently on hold.

If I had not visited my LMS, then I would've bought the Pavla resin set, for about £6. This is less than the price of my new Airfix kit and would supply some nice bits for my older Airfix Hurricanes, if I chose.

Regards,
Bruce

[peebeep]

If you pay the asking price no matter what, not only are you a part of the problem of increasing prices, you are a mug.

Everybody places their own value on what they buy or what they don't buy. I'm not sure that gives you the right to say they might be mugs! In terms of hours per pound this hobby is as cheap as anything going, even if you're buying Tamiya Spitfires or expensive Hasegawa.

peebeep