Defiant Discussion

[mattbacon]

The “turret fighter” was “a fad at the time” because rather a lot of the RAF’s senior officers had either fought in, or alongside, Bristol Fighters in WW1, and were convinced that a fighter aircraft that allowed the “observer” to concentrate on bringing the heavy armament to bear while the pilot concentrated on putting the aircraft in the right place would repeat the Brisfit’s success. As is often the case in military procurement and sttrategic doctrine, they were fighting the last war, not the current one... The eight-gun single seater fighter made bringing the armament to bear and putting the aircraft in the right place the same job; and without the weight penalty of the turret and the extra man... a win all round!

bestest,
M.

[peebeep]

The concept seems to have been wrong

That's common ground to anybody interested in this period of aviation. Read any history of the Defiant and the author will tell you of its flawed concept. As a fixed gun fighter it would have probably been better than average and was on stand-by in the event of either the Hurricane or Spitfire turning out to be failures. Even with the turret it is reported to be be a nimble enough machine and could do 300mph at 17,000'. Without the turret performance would have been commensurately better, probably similar to the Hurricane, if not better.

peebeep

[Softscience]

Come now, was that necessary?

[KIWI]

I think the Defiant has probably sold quite well over the years as to a LJ it looks pretty cool. A Hurricane with a turret full of guns and a sharks mouth!. The interesting think is that in kit form an aircraft can be more popular and well known (within the modelling world) than it ever was in reality.

There is a certain irony in that sharks mouth , I believe this was the only Defiant nightfighter shot down while nightfighting .

[IrishAir]

I think that if the Defiant was maybe given the Merlin 45 in early 1941 with maybe 2x.50 cals in the nose or inboard sections of the wings it would have faired much better.

Cheers,
Paul

[Stamford]

It´s all a bit strange. A turret carrying fighter was not a good idea. The Blackburn Roc was another from the stable of bad ideas pre ww2 which included the uncatchable light bomber the Fairey Battle, the three fighter vic formation and set attacks. All history and all facinating subjects! I have a 1/48 Roc in the stash and these are subjects that would sell - try bidding on a Classic Airframes Battle or Defiant. Airfix left the FAA to Frog so an early Firefly, Skua and Albacore are also gaps in the mainstream market.

[peebeep]

How did the Defiant 'turretless' TTIII target tug perform?

The first prototype Defiant first flew without the turret. It was faired over and ballast was carried in lieu of the turret and extra crew member. Handling was described as excellent and the machine could do 300 mph. This was a machine similar in size and weight to the Hurricane, but 1700lbs heavier. A turret-less mock up was built, but no production airframes were ever manufactured. The whole exercise was academic (as is current day speculation) as the Hurricane and Spitfire fulfilled the day fighter interceptor role admirably.

peebeep

[Softscience]

Airfix left the FAA to Frog so an early Firefly, Skua and Albacore are also gaps in the mainstream market.

Whats the Russian firm that is slated to repress a good many of those Frog moulds in the coming months. No, not Novo. Its a newer outfit. They're also doing a line of 1/48 hurricanes and Soviet VVS fighters.

Whoever they are, I think they're releasing some of those FAA types soon

[MerlinJones]

Ark.

[Stamford]

I don´t know of an Albacore in 1/72 and whilst the frog Firefly is Ok it would be great with a modern one - the Skua is stone age.

[peebeep]

The Albacore has been done by Pegasus and MPM in 1/72, Special Hobby in 1/48. Special Hobby/MPM also do a Firefly early variant and Mk V in 1/72. Special Hobby do the Skua in both scales, Pavla in 1/72.

peebeep

[gengriz]

The Defiant may have been a flawed concept when used as a daylight fighter, but it still played its part; during the winter Blitz on London of 1940–41, the Defiant equipped four squadrons, shooting down more enemy aircraft than any other type.

During the Bath Blitz (part of the Baedecker raids) in April 1942 , the pilots of 125 Sqn from Colerne abandoned their new but ineffective Beaufighters after the second raid on the City and tried to get their (recently decomissioned) Defiants back into the air (along with some borrowed Hurricanes) http://www.thejwarrens.pwp.blueyonder.c ... nts06a.htm. They had more success with the Defiants than either they or 87 Sqns Hurricanes had achieved the night before.

The turret fighter concept was still seen as a good idea quite late into the war, with attempts to fit a turret to other bigger fighters (Beaufighters and Mossies), but as with the Defiant, the performance hit was too much. Nothing wrong with the idea of a turret fighter, it was simply that the airframe and engine technology of the time couldn't carry it off.

[Stamford]

The Albacore has been done by Pegasus and MPM in 1/72, Special Hobby in 1/48. Special Hobby/MPM also do a Firefly early variant and Mk V in 1/72. Special Hobby do the Skua in both scales, Pavla in 1/72.

peebeep

Didn´t know about the Albacore but Pegasus ans MPM versions are a bit to basic - I´ll watch out for the Special Hobby little Skua - I still think these have been misssed by mainstream (cheaper?)manufacturers though! I´d add the Barracuda to that list as well - I know Special Hobby do one but its expensive.