Airfix Bashing; The New Hobby

[Beowulf Shaeffer]

im a bit mixed about it all.........when i was a kid i built airfix and knew no better since thats all there was!..............when i got back into the game a few years back i was dismayed at the quality compared to others and didnt buy any airfix for a very long time and derided them............nowadays cos of how my modelling tastes have evolved im happy to build them for a variety of reasons...in fact i see the lower quality as a challenge to try and make something nice out of it

i think the main prob is that hornby inherited a lot of old stuff and are trying to punt it out whilst trying to get new stuff into the market, simply to keep the name in the modelmaking publics eye

theres plenty in the range i think they should ditch cos its so old/irrelevant such as the 1/32 cars.......dreadful when they were new let alone now!.....silly scale too.....either do it in 1/35 which would appeal to the armour/diorama guys or ditch it altogether and go to 1/24 like everyone else......just try and make them better than those lousy rally cars

heard they are entering the world of 1/48 armour, thats a positive sign since thats a growing market

if they want 'bread and butter' kits like the spit/harrier/hawk etc there must be other subjects that no one else has done?.......(theres an idea for a thread....'subjects we would like to see airfix do'...might give them some ideas)

but there marketing philosophy can be odd...like someone said, saying they are doing something 1 to 2 years in advance is just setting themselves up for a fall cos of the hype

another thing to think about is the costs involved in doing something new...........it ok doing say for example a DB9 but i would imagine Aston want some fee/royalties for the involvement and use of thier 'image' and since cash is short these days that must be a factor to be considered

i think they are certainly heading in the right direction, just need to prune some of the 'dead wood' kits imo

[Stamford]

What everybody else said - Especially Dirk the reformed Airfix basher - please label these oldies so that people know what they are getting. We might know but somebody buying their first kit and Buying an Airfix Gladiator or Defiant will not be a brand loyal customer and will jump over the new releases. In all honesty we build these kits as a nostalgia trip back to the time when they were good kits and so we accept their shortcomings - nobody else will. So Airfix can sell them - but they must call them "classics" or they are killing future custom.
I like the new releases. Very well priced and the decals are much better.

[peebeep]

Only "die-hard" Airfix fans will suck it up and say that those are great fun to make - excellent fit, good decals ... blahdy blah blah blah ...

That would be me then. I bought the MiG-15 out of curiosity, did some research and found that it is not an accurate rendition but decided to build in any case. Had a hoot - excellent fit, good decals ... blahdy blah blah blah ...I have a couple of Hurricanes and may go out and get some 109's just for the hell of it. If you're looking to build scale models don't buy. If you're looking for stress busters that put the fun back into things they're fab.



peebeep

[AndrewR]

That would be me then. I bought the MiG-15 out of curiosity, did some research and found that it is not an accurate rendition but decided to build in any case. Had a hoot - excellent fit, good decals ... blahdy blah blah blah ...I have a couple of Hurricanes and may go out and get some 109's just for the hell of it. If you're looking to build scale models don't buy. If you're looking for stress busters that put the fun back into things they're fab.



peebeep

And me, the Bf109G kit is a great build, nice decals etc.
Accurate model? Nope!
Fun to build? Yep!
Likely to get little Jennie or Johnny to ask for more Airfix models? You bet!

The Hurricane IIc is looking to be the same, I'm doing that one right now.
Of course, we really want the high standards of engineering with the accuracy too, so it's worth keeping up the dialogue with Airfix.

[AndrewR]

so it's worth keeping up the dialogue with Airfix.

Right. Look at Dragon. They released a decent, but difficult-fit, with some inaccuracies, 1:35 Nashorn. I know. I bought it. That was Kit # 6001 or something. Then they got negative feedback and released a new, improved version - #6035 or 6066 ... something in that order. Within a year or two. Now, less than 10 years later, there are at least 2 more newer, improved Nashorns. It makes my kit virtually worthless if I want to resell it, mind you, but if you were in the market for a new Nashorn you'd be really pleased

That's the downside of being an early adopter of new technology or kits, obsolescence can be quick!

It would be nice if Airfix could retool some things though, the Hurricane prop and rudder being two of them. The funny cowl bump on the 109 is another. It is a little frustrating that there are some things that could be fixed easily, and shouldn't really have been wrong in the first place!

[peebeep]

For me, the stress would be greater because the needless inaccuracies would bug me no end, and I'd have to fix them. Yes, it can be done. Why it needs to be done, when all the research has been done decades ago, is a matter of concern.

That's why it's not worth your buying them, you're wearing your modellers AMS blinkers, although you're perfectly entitled to that. My point is that if you view them purely as plastic kits, not scale models (toys if you like), then they press all the right buttons. As AndrewR says, they're fun. Does it need to be more than that? If you want accurate with bells and whistles there are plenty of non-Airfix options. I'm still optimistic that new releases will be more accurate whilst retaining the fun. In the mean time I'll carry on building my non-accurate Airfix new releases with a smile on my face.

peebeep

[MerlinJones]

Airfix and some of their fans would shout at us that the reason they kept on re-boxing the old duffer kits was that because they sold lots and lots of them.
Lots and lots of them...

From that oft-repeated argument, you might argue that they may not've been the most accurate, but they were fun to build and priced at the target market.

So why spend hundreds of thousands of pounds of our spent monies on making brand new tools, of still-inaccurate kits, that have some features that actually make them worse than their predecessors? You can get the older Spitfire Mk.1 for relative peanuts and is the new-tool really worth the extra money? Ditto the new tool Harrier, Hurricane, Bf109...

Regards,
Bruce

[AndrewR]

They have to be fun to build, for the 80% of the market which buy these kits as "toys" or gifts in a high street retail outlet. Airfix want and need the repeat business. The 20% of us who are the The Grumpy Old Modellers should keep pushing them to keep the fun, but raise the bar on the accuracy too. It can be done.

They do need to retire some of the old dreadful kits though, these will put people off for life. As far as I can see, they are going through the catalogue and replacing old toolings. The trouble is, they can only cope with so many per year, unless they expand the R&D side of things.

A new tool Tiger Moth... Please

[peebeep]

So why spend hundreds of thousands of pounds of our spent monies on making brand new tools, of still-inaccurate kits, that have some features that actually make them worse than their predecessors? You can get the older Spitfire Mk.1 for relative peanuts and is the new-tool really worth the extra money? Ditto the new tool Harrier, Hurricane, Bf109...

Because they will sell lots and lots and make lots and lots of money, it's not rocket science. You made your choice, you spent your money, it's no longer yours. They've had to invest in new tooling because most of the old tools are too worn out to make a product that could be described as fit for purpose, plus, notwithstanding the dross that appears in boxes for sale and more to the (commercial) point, most likely an increasingly high proportion of mouldings were being rejected. If you're looking for reasons why the early new releases suffer from inaccuracies it is almost certainly down to the need to establish a new catalogue asap, so they were pushed out as quickly as possible, regardless. Of course old hands can source the older kits if they want, but the mass market doesn't give a toss, something the 10-15% of enthusiasts consistently fail to understand (or fail to believe). This is a business driven by commercial decisions, not the wants and needs of a minority of modellers. I'll say it again, don't like it, don't buy it, simples. There's plenty of other stuff to choose from.

peebeep

[AndrewR]

<snip>As AndrewR says, they're fun. Does it need to be more than that? <snip>

AndrewR also says ...

<snip>
It would be nice if Airfix could retool some things though, the Hurricane prop and rudder being two of them. The funny cowl bump on the 109 is another. It is a little frustrating that there are some things that could be fixed easily, and shouldn't really have been wrong in the first place!

and of course, he's referring to the New Tools that could use some re-tooling.

Absolutely right. I'd rather they got it right on the new tools...
Although I think they'll retool the old tools first...

[MerlinJones]

But Paul...they were already making lots and lots of money with the old stuff.
Ah...but the new stuff is priced much higher than the old was...

Another of the reasons oft-given for the old klunkers and kit staples was that "our" money paid for such went towards the kits we really wanted, like 1/72 Valiants and Nimrods and 1/48 Sea Vixens and 1/24 Mosquitos.
(Although a review of the annual wish lists, gathered at Telford, might shed some surprising light on the apparent desirability of those kits).

If Airfix had been a company starting from scratch, with no access to real life data, then inaccuracies would be expected.
It isn't and has access to data.
I know that actually, some inaccuracies occurred because of communication and understanding difficulties with the new tool makers.
To take some of the flak off Airfix, Revell have always sold old kits as 'New', sometimes kits that are well past their sell-by date. Such kits can include old Hasegawa, FROG, PM and Matchbox, to name but a few. Granted, when Revell re-boxed their old kits they did label and sell them as Classics, with notes to explain that the quality might not be up to modern standard, but their current range includes several old Matchbox kits.

Strangely, you don't see much by way of bitter complaint amongst the modelling forums regarding these and it would be nice to believe that those kits are still gem-worthy. The new Revell 1/32 Hawk is not without some flaws. That said, the new-tool Revell just don't seem to possess as many flaws as new-tool Airfix. I wonder why this is so.

Regards,
Bruce

[SJPONeill]

Soon I am going to start buying my nephews some models...they won't be the Tamigawa Trumpboss kits that everyone seems to go all gooey over...they will be as close as I can find to the good old Airfix, FROG and MB classics. Why? Not because of cost, as that's not really an issue but because at the age (in the 7-10 bracket) they won't care about whether the Mk.13 techy-thingie is a scale two millimetres too wide or that the decals are by some foreign lot and contain every stencil ever put on the damn thing...they want something nice and simple that does not have an intimidating number of parts nor require one to be a master of brass origami...one lucky contender might even be looking at the rereleased Revell Atomic Cannon which is neither delicate nor accurate but build straight out of the box and is very cool...

Later in life, if that exposure to crude, ancient models hasn't scarred them for life they may opt to move into the world of Tamigawa etc...I don't think there's any but the most tenuous link between one's first models and whether one remains a modeller or comes back to it in later life when all those girls and beer catch up with one...

[MerlinJones]

But if cost is not the issue, then why not the Hobby Boss kits?

Regards,
Bruce

[flakmonkey]

As you move up the price range, Nu-Airfix kits begin to impress. Move down the price range into the pocket money stuff, they become more toy like. This is something that I can't help but feel is deliberate and if that is the case, not only can I live with that I think it's a savvy decision in many ways. Your average pocket money kit buyer is far more likely to pick up an Airfix Spitfire from Toys'R'Us than a Tamiya bird cage Corsair from a specialist model shop. Come to that, they would be far more likely to be visiting Toys'R'Us with mum and dad in the first place than their nearest model shop which for most these days is a fair drive away. I couldn't care less how duff the latest series 1 kit is, I am not the target market and as long as it sells in droves to the great unwashed so that the money can be invested in 1/24 Mosquitoes, Sea Vixens, Lynxes and the like then as far as I'm concerned that new tool kit is doing the cash cow job it was put out there to do. Selfish attitude, yes maybe; but the money for the interesting stuff has to come from somewhere. It's exactly the same principle that you would find in many other businesses from car manufacture to the record industry - sell enough anonymous bread and butter/ throw away product and you have the cash to go off and do something interesting.

[SJPONeill]

But if cost is not the issue, then why not the Hobby Boss kits?

Regards,
Bruce

Don't see the point in paying more for something that won't be appreciated...there is also an element of keep it simple to keep the well-meaning dads out...