Airfix Bashing; The New Hobby

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m1ks
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Re: Airfix Bashing; The New Hobby

Post by m1ks »

I'm not so much bothered about people generally on the internet and forums as everyone is entitled to an opinion, my personal bugbear is magazine routinely rubbishing the kits, the majority of reviewers have forgotten that this is ultimately 'a hobby', the clue is in the title, its intended to be fun and Airfix are and always were at the budget end of the market, the MKI 72nd spit is a prime example, it's a great looking kit compared to the older raised panel line kits and yes, it does have it's inaccuracies but then show me a kit that doesn't.
The reviewers always seem to overlook the fact that these are cheap kits too and the truly infuriating thing is when they take an expensive to begin with kit, gloss over the cost by telling you how great, accurate, superb, marvellous it is then proceed to attack it with white metal, PE and resin hacking off various suddenly innaccurate parts and STILL RAVE about the damn thing.
Sure everyones entitled to their own opinion and i've seen some people rip a kit to bits so minutely and scratch multiple parts to make it more accurate which is great if you want that but I really wish that magazine reviewers would loosen up a bit and realise it is in fact a hobby, not an accuracy and price competition.
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Re: Airfix Bashing; The New Hobby

Post by SJPONeill »

Could someone post a link or other evidence please that there is any but the most tenuous link between one's first models and whether one remains a modeller or comes back to it in later life when all those girls and beer catch up with one...? Without such, this discussion is largely moot so long as someone, anyone, is still buying Airfix kits - which they are...

What killed the first incarnation of Airfix was its deviation from the path of modelling truth and light into a range of quite dodgy toys in the name of diversification...
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Stamford
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Re: Airfix Bashing; The New Hobby

Post by Stamford »

MerlinJones wrote:But if cost is not the issue, then why not the Hobby Boss kits?

Regards,
Bruce
Because they consist of four parts and have no interior.

To those that say about reboxing - yeah but Revell do it as well. Last time I was in Brighton I visited LSA models and decided I fancied a Gannet - The choice was between Revell and Trumpeter the price was similar and I took the Trumpeter because I didn´t know if the Revell was ex Frog or brand new. Turns out the Revell is top kit and this illustrates the point because I looked past the better product because I didn´t know what to expect from the Revell kit.
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Re: Airfix Bashing; The New Hobby

Post by Saxon »

I'm not overly worried about accuracy, as long as it looks like the subject, I'm not fussed if it has the wrong antennae or landing gear etc. I have enough stress at work to worry about that sort of thing in a plastic model.

I'm after something easy (yes easy!) to build, goes together well and is fun. Airfix for the most part fill that role, they have some stinkers but then so do other makers so I am not bashing them per se. They have improved probably more than any other company in the last few years as well.

As far as people Bashing Airfix, that is a fair call, Airfix are the nerdy grandfather of modelling, always been there, has an iconic status which people like to rip away at. Given the anonymity of the net you also have to wonder how many of these people work for the other companies and are on a PR campaign.

Just an alternate view.
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Re: Airfix Bashing; The New Hobby

Post by peebeep »

MerlinJones wrote:But Paul...they were already making lots and lots of money with the old stuff.
Ah...but the new stuff is priced much higher than the old was...

Another of the reasons oft-given for the old klunkers and kit staples was that "our" money paid for such went towards the kits we really wanted, like 1/72 Valiants and Nimrods and 1/48 Sea Vixens and 1/24 Mosquitos.
Your missing my point, which is that new tools were probably a necessity, not merely desirable and not merely desirable for the 15% who are fixated on accuracy. As for prices, well Airfix making a profit, how dare they. Bought any Hasegawa lately?

Let's consider the Nimrod, a kit that the 15% were demanding, also the 1/48 Canberras. I can pick up a Nimrod for fifteen quid at a show, likewise Canberras in the Airfix sale. What does that tell us? The 15% demand, but they don't buy, that's what it tells me. The stuff that people here are deriding is the stuff that keeps the company profitable whilst subsidising expensive flops that the 15% said they wanted.

Brews, you say inexcusable. Airfix say so what? They're not accountable to the 15%, certainly not on the grounds of producing accurate kits. It doesn't matter a jot to the accountants, investors/shareholders!. They're selling products to make money, nobody here is forced to buy. Don't like it, don't buy it. If I want an accurate Hurricane I buy Revell or Hasegawa - the latter if I can find one and the seller isn't demanding an arm and a leg. If I saw people being frog marched into their Hobbycraft and being forced to exchange their hard earned for Airfix then I'd say there is a problem, but they aren't, everybody is free to exercise their choice as consumers.

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Re: Airfix Bashing; The New Hobby

Post by peebeep »

flakmonkey wrote:As you move up the price range, Nu-Airfix kits begin to impress. Move down the price range into the pocket money stuff, they become more toy like. This is something that I can't help but feel is deliberate and if that is the case, not only can I live with that I think it's a savvy decision in many ways.
From what I can gather it's policy. At least I'm not the only one who can live with it.

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Re: Airfix Bashing; The New Hobby

Post by BWP »

MerlinJones wrote:You can get the older Spitfire Mk.1 for relative peanuts and is the new-tool really worth the extra money?
Bruce, from everything I've read and heard, everyone but you seems to be saying "yes".

Several of the recent Airfix releases have been poor, and criticism of them for their faults is deserved.

When you unfairly criticise a kit, though, then it's just another example of needless "Airfix bashing" as mentioned at the beginning of the thread.

It's OK for you to not like the new Spitfire kit. I don't think that, given the available evidence, it's OK to claim that it's typical of everything that's wrong with Airfix; and honestly, you do seem to be going on and on about it lately. (Cripes, if this was the ATF you'd have been banned for life by now.) Even valid criticism just becomes noise if you hear it too often.

None of this is restricted to Airfix, of course, as has been mentioned elsewhere. Tamiya are just as guilty of perpetuating old, tired kit moulds as Airfix are, and repeating old mistakes on new kits. Dragon occasionally make really stupid errors on otherwise-detailed AFV kits: sometimes they fix the mistakes by retooling the kit (new parts in the box), sometimes they fix the mistakes by issuing a brand-new kit ("sorry that you bought that old one, you'll be happier buying this new one :mrgreen: "), and sometimes they refuse to admit any mistake at all despite any evidence presented to them. (It's the inconsistency that makes it particularly confusing. Furthermore on all of their kits they persist in issuing inaccurate and/or confusing instruction sheets, despite many years of complaints.) Companies like Trumpeter veer between kits that are amazing and amazingly-bad ("How did they get that wrong?").

If there are companies out there that produce awful kits every single time, then don't buy them, ever. Every other company seems to have their mix of good, great, OK and downright bad releases. Complain to them, when appropriate, so that (hopefully) mistakes won't get repeated, but nothing gets fixed overnight, and remember that if the complaining becomes a reflex action then people will just stop listening to you. And don't buy anything you don't like!
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Re: Airfix Bashing; The New Hobby

Post by MerlinJones »

I'll just say that you need to read the responses of others more carefully.
For myself, I personally get tired of repeatedly hearing how wonderful and amazing and brilliant the new stuff is, without any valid justification of the words. On the basis of such reviews, people then state that they'll buy half a dozen, etc..
Extra pieces to build different options is nothing new, although a superb fit of parts may be.
The new Hurricane, for example, fits together beautifully.

However, good fit should be a given and I'm aware of how those awful panel lines are beginning to be glossed over in some reviews. Surely that is not the message that Hornby need to be hearing...unless you want them on all future new Airfix kits?

Final point for this morning; I won't buy anything I don't like, but I'm often dependent upon the reviews of others and, when those reviews are unnecessarily over-positive, I feel conned.
I also get disgruntled when I'm told what I can and cannot say, whether I'm alone in my opinion or not.

Regards,
Bruce
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Re: Airfix Bashing; The New Hobby

Post by johnsan »

peebeep wrote: ... Bought any Hasegawa lately?...
Funny you should mention Hasegawa.

There are some similarities with the two companies. Both serve a world wide market place, but concentrate mostly on their respective home markets. Both make decisions mostly on the demands of their home market. Both have a re-release policy for older kits. Both have, let's be kind, clunkers in their list which they both re-release.

There is a major difference between the two, leaving price out. Hasegawa cares about accuracy in all the scales as policy. Hasegawa cares about finesse of detail in all scales as policy. Hasegawa realizes there are 'serious' modelers in all scales.

Oh, yeah. Hasegawa costs a bunch more. Let's compare a kit in both companies' catalogs, the new Airfix 109G and Hasegawa's older 109G. Hasegawa's Gustav is roughly 20 years old, but was recently released again. This time with Finnish decals. The molds have held up well. The kit has finely engraved panel lines and a little detail in the cockpit. It comes with 2 thin and clear canopies. The decals are decent with true whites. I would not replace them with aftermarket were I to build this kit. Then, there is Airfix's Gustav, a very recent release. Everyone here knows this kit. I believe I am being generous is saying this kit is polystyrene crap in a box. It's not just a matter of the beule. The sad truth of this kit is that not a single part is shaped accurately. To be fair, the Hasegawa kit has accuracy problems also, but until just a few years ago this was the best 72nd Gustav.

Price? Airfix's Gustav costs me ¥1000. Hasegawa's is ¥1500. If price was a factor, I'd opt for HobbyBoss's Gustav at ¥900. It's a fine little kit that is more accurate than the Hasegawa and cheaper than Airfix.

Am I Airfix bashing? I don't think so. The very sad thing is Airfix rarely meets my criteria on the fun/cost ratio. Others feel otherwise. That's ok. Whatever works for them.
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Re: Airfix Bashing; The New Hobby

Post by AndrewR »

Airfix are trying to actively shape the UK market, by getting kits back into many retail outlets. That is their marketing strategy, and to some extent, that will dictate their choices of subject, price levels and complexity levels. This is a good thing as far as I am concerned, it will restore the situation which existed when many of us grew up. Here in Canada it is very difficult to buy kits in a normal retail outlet, except the specialist "hobby shops". That situation does severely constrain the impulse or gift buying purchaser - they simply don't see any kits when out shopping.

We should give robust, but constructive criticism in their efforts to do this. Not all of their products are going to suit a " serious modeler ", however you define that term. But the strategy will create a new generation of "serious" modellers. This will be a good thing.

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Re: Airfix Bashing; The New Hobby

Post by SJPONeill »

AndrewR wrote:Here in Canada it is very difficult to buy kits in a normal retail outlet, except the specialist "hobby shops". That situation does severely constrain the impulse or gift buying purchaser - they simply don't see any kits when out shopping.
I've noticed the same in the US, apart from Mr Capelli's in Philly (which was closed :( )m The USAF Museum is the oinly place where I have found any selection of models...absolutely zip in any of the malls and shops I have been in...that's probably been a good think for keeping my load and stash constrained but rather disappointing from a 'targets of opportunity' and hobby sustainment POV...if Airfix's current strategy is getting any models out in the the general shopping arena, more power to them, I say...
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Re: Airfix Bashing; The New Hobby

Post by Chris »

Quite a contrast from 30 years ago, even food markets used to devote an entire isle to model kits.
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Softscience
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Re: Airfix Bashing; The New Hobby

Post by Softscience »

There are a few places outside of traditional hobby shops which still carry models. These typically fall under the craft mega-store umbrella. Hobby Lobby, Michael's, Ben Franklin, and so forth. Up until the last five years or so, one might also find a few models at the big-box retailers like Walmart.

They typically stock only Revell and Monogram kits, and even then, tend to focus on 1/48 jets and 1/24 cars. I think the target market there is for the auntie Flo types who go in to buy yarn or craft ribbon or whatnot and decide to get a present for little Johnie. I really wonder if they would make more sales if they broadened their appeal to more dedicated modelers.

Doubt it though.
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Re: Airfix Bashing; The New Hobby

Post by bromo »

MerlinJones wrote:I'll just say that you need to read the responses of others more carefully.
For myself, I personally get tired of repeatedly hearing how wonderful and amazing and brilliant the new stuff is, without any valid justification of the words. On the basis of such reviews, people then state that they'll buy half a dozen, etc..
Extra pieces to build different options is nothing new, although a superb fit of parts may be.
The new Hurricane, for example, fits together beautifully.

However, good fit should be a given and I'm aware of how those awful panel lines are beginning to be glossed over in some reviews. Surely that is not the message that Hornby need to be hearing...unless you want them on all future new Airfix kits?

Final point for this morning; I won't buy anything I don't like, but I'm often dependent upon the reviews of others and, when those reviews are unnecessarily over-positive, I feel conned.
I also get disgruntled when I'm told what I can and cannot say, whether I'm alone in my opinion or not.

Regards,
Bruce

Regards the last line line Bruce,i agree 100 % with that ;-) Martin
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Re: Airfix Bashing; The New Hobby

Post by BWP »

MerlinJones wrote:For myself, I personally get tired ...
You're tired?
... of repeatedly hearing how wonderful and amazing and brilliant the new stuff is, without any valid justification of the words. On the basis of such reviews, people then state that they'll buy half a dozen, etc.
Firstly, "valid" is in the eye of the beholder. The majority of the reviews I've read seem perfectly level-headed. You're entitled to your opinion, but so are the reviewers, and even the fan-boys. Sure we've all read reviews where the reviewer doesn't seem to have been paying close attention. They usually come with photographs, though. C'mon, you can see what they're seeing. If you think it's wrong, and you go out and buy it any way, why are they the ones at fault? If there's any "conning" going on, you're doing it to yourself.
I also get disgruntled when I'm told what I can and cannot say, whether I'm alone in my opinion or not.
I never suggested that you weren't allowed to say anything. What I suggested was that after you say it a dozen times a day, nobody cares any more. We get it, Bruce. Time to move on. There will be new Airfix kits for you to hate soon enough. (Oh wait, I'd forgotten that you've already started laying into some of the not-yet-released kits.)

I propose a new forum sticky topic: "I've been conned! -- MJ reviews the latest Airfix releases."
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