Rob tries to figure something

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rob_van_riel
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Rob tries to figure something

Post by rob_van_riel »

Always looking for new tricks to add to my toolbox, I decided to take a closer look at the "artist's oils" the figure painting community is always going on about. I'd heard about them ages ago, of course, but it all seemed a bit artsy fartsy to me, and I had some serious doubts about the technical characteristics of paint designed for canvass in a world of plastic. Curiousity got the better of me eventually, and I decided to run an experiment. Bad, really bad, idea. I ended up getting not so much bitten as totally chewed to bits by the figure building bug. Aircraft production might end up suffering horribly because of this...

That leaves me with a number of figures on the bench. I usually prefer a thread per model or project in the appropriate subsection, but this bunch has no relation to each other other than the fact they happen to sit on the bench at the same time, and each figure by itself isn't enough for a proper thread. So, I finally got an excuse for a workbench thread.

On to the dramatis personae.

First up, Napoleon, or at least the upper bits of him. I ordered up a bunch of figures from Historex a short while ago, and they included a resin bust of their favourite character as a bonus. This is 1/15 scale, and so seemed like the perfect test subject; at least I wouldn't need a microscope to see what I was doing. (that's the official party line; any rumours that it was also considered surplus are totally untrue..)
For my first attempt with the new medium, I decided to follow "http://www.scale-models.co.uk/threads/t ... ting.9629/" pretty much to the letter. The result was a surprise:

Image

I don't think I ever got a face to look this good, and that's without proper experience in this arena. In other words, that's not skill, that's a medium positively eager to do the job, and a very good tutorial. I'll work on the skill part in the future though, because I'm now completely sold on this stuff.
The head isn't complete yet of course, but the skin plus eyes have validated the medium and technique for as far as I'm concerned. Being a test, I haven't even cleaned up the lower half of the bust yet, but I like the result so far enough that I'll finish it.

Next up is a Segom drummer of the 67th regiment of the French infantry in 1809.
Segom produced flat tin soldiers, metal 15mm(?) wargame figures, and 54mm Napoleonic figures in acetate. When I was getting up to speed with Napoleonic figures in the early 80s, they were already on their way to becoming a forgotten name in 54mm, found only as leftovers in some shops. I suspect their exotic choice of material and competition from Historex on the same subjects and market, using the more conventional styrene and much higher quality tooling, destoyed them in this domain (I believe their flats and 15mm went on much longer, perhaps to this day). In some ways, this is a real pity, as their animation was much better than Historex's, and I think their parts layout had a clear advantage over the more traditional kind.

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As can be seen from the picture, the torso is hollow, and the legs extend into that hollow. Since the parts separate along the same line as the clothing, this means all of the trousers are one part, and all of the coat another (this is not uncommon, of course), and that the coat falls 'naturally' over the trousers. The latter is a neat trick; you could paint the parts separately, and not worry about perfect fit or filler-and-touchup when joining them, as the minimal gaps along the join are in the correct location for the real thing and thus do not need correcting. It does require some very thin edges to the torso part though, and tricky moulding to get the part right. Maybe that was one of the reasons they went with acetate. I'm no materials specialist, but at first glance this would be impressive moulding in styrene even now. Still, I like the idea.

I only ever had one of these in the distant past, a French 7th Hussar, and my attempt to build it was an unqualified disaster. All that remains of it today is the instruction card that came with it. I don't take defeat lightly, and I hold grudges with the best of them, so a rematch was clearly called for. Problem was, I didn't even now the name of the brand (not mentioned on the instructions..). An evening of searching the net revealed that particular bit of information though, and also that they still showed up occasionally on eBay. Within a week a small batch of these distant memories was on it's way from the US. It's almost too easy these days...

One of the models in this batch was a trumpeter of the very same 7th hussars that had clobbered me ages ago. Not the exact same kit, but close enough; revenge will be mine :twisted:
Now, revenge is serious business, and it's unlikely I'll get a third shot, so I'm not going after this one first. It's companions will teach me what to look out for with these kits before I go for it. Pretty much at random I picked the current victim from the small stash of these.

Segom kits had their undeniable charm, but they are, shall we say, basic. The drummer is a grand total of 9 pieces, the drumsticks are almost comically undersized, and the sword looks like a toy. The detail is a mixed bag; on the one hand, what is there is beautifully done, on the other, it's not exactly complete. Obviously absent is the rear half of the drum carrying belt (it's there in the front, then vanishes at the epaulette), and the rather prominent protective sheet drummers wore strapped to their left leg. Fit of the arms to the torso is more implied than present, which makes the epaulettes, of which one half is on the arms and the other half on the torso, a real problem. Stark contrast to the drum; the round part that closes the bottom fits so snugly that it's practically a snap-tite. All the parts will need rather serious cleanup too. The instruction sheet is a scrap of paper, roughly A6 in size, with an "artist's impression" pen drawing of the subject on one side, and text-only colour callouts on the other. Still, I'm no longer an inexperienced schoolkid, and I doubt those were ever the target audience in the first place, so I should manage if I can avoid a bad case of perfectionism..

I've cleaned up the legs sufficiently for a first shot of primer to point out what I missed, and to start thinking about what to do about the leg protection.

Number three is an Airfix 10th Hussar.

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This was started ages ago, in the late 80s, briefly picked up again in 2011, after which it faded into the background again. The state of play 2011 was as shown below.

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I was originally going to leave all the previously done work alone, but it hasn't quite worked out that way. No matter how I look at it, Airfix messed up one of the right arm positions. The one with the sabre held high over the head works, and for this the entire torso and especially the right shoulder angle upwards. The position shown on the box art either requires a slightly bent arm, or a level shoulder, but the arm is too straight for that (actually, the bend is completely horizontal, while the elbow should have been slightly above the shoulder). This was just a bit too much to accept, so I chopped off the arm and replaced it with the other option.

The Torso has been joined to the legs, the head stuck on, and the lot given the usual cleanup treatment and primer. I'm currently in the process of painting the face and hands with oils; we'll see how it turns out on a much smaller scale (and lesser quality scultping underneath) later.

The horse seemed a bit bland, so I made the mistake of putting white socks on it. Although the demarcation between the two colours is quite sharp on a real horse, merely painting the socks white gave a rather terrible result. While I was working on Napoleon's face, I used some leftover ochre to put a very thin wash over the socks, and although the colour is now clearly off, the arms length result is much better. I'll complete the painting of the horse sort of soon, and judge the result once completed. If I don't like what I'll see, I'll strip the lot (which was what was going to happen because of the botched socks anyway).

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The final figure for this batch (for now :roll: ) is a Historex Saxon cuirassier of the Zastrov regiment. This too has been clogging the bench for the better part of three decades. Again, I intend to leave the existing work alone, and just finish it.

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State after years of neglect:

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Historex were at the top of their power in those days (they're still good, but not that good anymore - range has been reduced slightly, mouldings aren't as fresh, and QC occasionally slips up, but I'd still recommend them to anyone getting into figures), so other than the somewhat stiff pose, the kit is simply perfect. Finishing this one should be a walk in the park, unless I somehow damage the yellow parts. These were painted in Heller 7002, and although to my surprise I still have that particular tin, I have no idea about the state on the contents, or the degree to which fresh paint would still match 30 year old work. Best not to have to find out, I guess..
I have no idea what I used for the silver, so the same holds for those parts..
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59North
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Re: Rob tries to figure something

Post by 59North »

I'm definitely interested, Rob, and hope you keep posting your progress here.
Thanks for the master class link.
rob_van_riel
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Re: Rob tries to figure something

Post by rob_van_riel »

59North wrote:I'm definitely interested, Rob, and hope you keep posting your progress here.
I intend to. Here's the Hussar's face for starters:
Image
Didn't turn out as good as Napoleon, but that's more due to my issues with painting on (and photographing) a 7x6mm surface than anything to do with the paints used. It looks lively enough in real life..
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iggie
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Re: Rob tries to figure something

Post by iggie »

Figure work and faces/skin tones in particular are something I don't often attempt; even to the extent that those few models I build 'in flight' are clearly those that have been converted to un-manned drone status :-D

I will follow your progress and methods with interest and one day I will try to put them into practice!

Napoleon looks great btw!
Best wishes

Jim
If you can walk away from a landing, it's a good landing. If you use the airplane the next day, it's an outstanding landing
"Never put off till tomorrow, what you can do the day after tomorrow"
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jssel
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Re: Rob tries to figure something

Post by jssel »

Very good so far. Keep posting. Maybe we can relocate this to the Figures area. It would be worth pinning.
Besting 60 years of mediocre building of average kits in the stand off scale
rob_van_riel
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Re: Rob tries to figure something

Post by rob_van_riel »

jssel wrote:Maybe we can relocate this to the Figures area.
My first idea was to put it there in the first place, but this could become sufficiently open-ended, with the scope getting expanded with new subjects at times (I can be a bit unpredictable, even to myself :lol: ), that I decided to put it here. I certainly intend to put a few pictures in the "figures" area as things get finished, with a link to this workbench thread. If consensus here is that this is not the correct compromise, I'll be happy to see the workbench moved to "figures" as well.
rob_van_riel
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Re: Rob tries to figure something

Post by rob_van_riel »

I think I've found the solution to the leg protection:

Image

I cut out the shape of the piece of cloth/leather (no idea which, really) based on a Historex part from thin paper, which I then soaked in watered down wood glue. The result was both clingy and sticky, and went onto the leg with little further fuss. Once this has thoroughly cured, I'll shoot several layers of varnish over it to make sure it stays stuck, and than make the straps holding it in place around the leg from vinyl tape (or whatever crazy idea enters my mind at the time..). Buckles to be swiped from the huge pile of Historex leftovers I still have from last millennium.

I've cleaned up the other body parts as well. The torso seems OK, but despite cleaning the other bits don't really seem to understand where they should join with it. Some fighting and nasty language expected there.

I won't be trying to fix the epaulettes. Instead I'll just file them off and replace them, if possible by scuplting new ones right onto the figure (need some training in that department), if that fails, I'll raid the spares box again.

The drum is a really nice piece of plastic, certainly on par with anything else currently available. The drumsticks, on the other hand, are a disaster. I'll have to replace them, but these are remarkably complex shapes, and I'm not so sure the spares box will come to the rescue here. Could get interesting..
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Re: Rob tries to figure something

Post by rob_van_riel »

rob_van_riel wrote:The drumsticks, on the other hand, are a disaster. I'll have to replace them, but these are remarkably complex shapes, and I'm not so sure the spares box will come to the rescue here. Could get interesting..
I just spent some hours bringing order to the chaos of the spares box (well, sort of anyway), and I actually found several sets of sticks. Three cheers for the spares box!
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Arcwelder
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Re: Rob tries to figure something

Post by Arcwelder »

I used to cast and paint the white metal soldiers and fantasy figures from the Prince August range when I was a lad. I'd assumed the company (based in Macroom, not far down the road from here) had gone bust as I hadn't seen their products in years. Turns out they're still operating and all the familar old moulds are there, too.

http://shop.princeaugust.ie/

I'm sorely tempted to get back into this very rewarding and enjoyable part of the hobby, but will certainly need to brush (ha!) up on my figure painting skills, as what was acceptable when I was 10 may not pass muster now!

So I'll be watching this thread with considerable interest!
Is this your sanderling?.

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splash
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Re: Rob tries to figure something

Post by splash »

Thanks for posting your work I have found it very interesting to read, its always good to try out new techniques, I have started to use oil paints for washes over acrylic paint and have found a thin brown oil paint wash over 1/72 scale figures faces and hands, really makes the detail stand out and improves their looks.

I recall building Historex figures in the early 70's when they were the only choice available, then they were expensive but better quality than anything else around at the time, I liked the idea that the heads, arms, bodies & legs came separate but did not like the static poses. Their Cannons and gun carriages were excellent but always out of my price range.

I look forward to seeing Napoleon finished.

Regards Splash
My work bench is starting to look like Portsmouth Naval Dockyard.
rob_van_riel
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Re: Rob tries to figure something

Post by rob_van_riel »

Arcwelder wrote:I'd assumed the company (based in Macroom, not far down the road from here) had gone bust as I hadn't seen their products in years.
...
I'm sorely tempted to get back into this very rewarding and enjoyable part of the hobby, but will certainly need to brush (ha!) up on my figure painting skills, as what was acceptable when I was 10 may not pass muster now!
Aaahh yesss... the heady days of melting lead alloys under circumstances that would give the health and safety lobby hysterics :-D I so miss the times when "will it work" was more important than "will the greens approve"...

I have quite a few of their moulds, and never lost track of them completely. The LHS actually still sells their stuff.

They produce good moulds, but in all fairness, I fear you will find that from a modeler's perspective the figures cast from them would pass muster anymore either. To get the quality we now expect, you either need rotation casting, softer (and thus more vulnerable) moulds, or both. Still, one day I'll get the Prussian fusilier in 54mm to produce a good cast (it's a temperamentful one..).
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Re: Rob tries to figure something

Post by rob_van_riel »

splash wrote:I recall building Historex figures in the early 70's when they were the only choice available, then they were expensive but better quality than anything else around at the time, I liked the idea that the heads, arms, bodies & legs came separate but did not like the static poses. Their Cannons and gun carriages were excellent but always out of my price range.
I guess all of that still holds, although my price range has stretched a bit since the old days. Unaltered Historex is good for parade ground poses. Anything beyond that, you'll have to work hard for.
I look forward to seeing Napoleon finished.
I think Bluecher and Wellington took care of that quite nicely a few years ago :ha:
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Re: Rob tries to figure something

Post by Asoka »

Great Stuff, Rob!
Never tried figures as such, only the little pilots in the planes... and those also quite badly! :-D

Napoleon looks really good!

Cheers,
Asoka
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rob_van_riel
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Re: Rob tries to figure something

Post by rob_van_riel »

rob_van_riel wrote:Unaltered Historex is good for parade ground poses. Anything beyond that, you'll have to work hard for.
I should, perhaps, point out that they realised this themselves. Their catalogs always had fairly good descriptions on how to animate figures for this very reason. Then they brought out some generic, more animated bodyparts in the 'movements' sets, and their 'living models' sets that came with detailed (sort of) instructions on how to do the animation. After the rivival they produced hybrid sets under the Nemrod brand, which included resin castings for the main body (at the expense of modularity), and sets of resin heads, which preserve some of the modularity level.

It's a hard problem to solve, really. If you want all body parts to be interchangable, you will end up with every model in the same pose, or small set of poses, and even then animation will have to be limited as various items of clothing respond differently to movement. If you want proper animation, you sacrifice flexibility. Historex chose the first option.

Interestingly, Airfix did the opposite. They still claimed parts are fully interchangable between the various "collector's series" and "multipose" figures, but this is just not true. Some figures are clearly larger than others, so swapping body parts looks wierd, and even when that doesn't come into play, some arms only work on some bodies (and some don't even work on their intended bodies; the 10th hussar and Polish lancer, for example, work with one of the arms supplied, the alternate right arm looks just plain non-human).
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Re: Rob tries to figure something

Post by rob_van_riel »

Asoka wrote:Napoleon looks really good!
Well, he has the advantage of being twice the size (and thus 4 times the area and 8 times the volume) as the others, and 30 years younger than the others. It is to be expected that the shape and level of detail are much better for both reasons, and it gave me a lot more room to work in as well.

I hear from several people here that they find figures a daunting prospect, or at least one that they've never tried. Perhaps the key to this is frame of mind; when doing figures, you are in effect always in super detailing mode. I have to admit that I have difficulty swithching over between building large structures and very fine detail work myself, hardly ever doing both on the same session.
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