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Mossie / Me262 Dogfight Double
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 Post subject: Mossie / Me262 Dogfight Double
PostPosted: February 1st, 2012, 8:49 pm 
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Hi Folks,

I have agreed that I'll build the aircraft for this display and do the mounts, while Paul Bradley will do the photoshopping of the background.

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I am reasonably happy with the building*, but I'm all at sea regarding mounting / displaying, so advice welcomed. I wish to crack on with the building, but I want to have an idea how to mount them before proceeding too far.

I will get a photo of the artwork, post it here, then put down some mounting suggestions for critiquing.

regards,

Martin

* OK, I don't have to worry about the landing gear (Hooray!) but I have to simulate spinny props on the Mossie, paint aircrew and so on.


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Mossie / Me262 Dogfight Double
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 Post subject: Re: Mossie / Me262 Dogfight Double
PostPosted: February 4th, 2012, 12:35 am 
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Had a bit of a lateral think here. As I don't actually have the DD kit in my stash, I don't have to build the actual aircraft from the kit (although I do need to put them in the right scheme).

I have a copy of the Airfix Mossie (the later Series 3 one), so I have no problem with doing that one; although what EG-T is doing with RPs underwing, I have no idea.

The Me262. Well, Paul has already provided some guidance there. What I am now thinking is doing a FROG Me262 instead of the Airfix one. I have one in the stash, it is a more accurate shape and has (relatively) more refined detail to it. If everyone is happy, this is the one I'll go for.

Now, mounting the kits . . . hmmmm! I'll post some thoughts for critiquing tomorrow.

regards,

Martin


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Mossie / Me262 Dogfight Double
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 Post subject: Re: Mossie / Me262 Dogfight Double
PostPosted: February 4th, 2012, 1:19 am 
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Frog one would be fine. Don't forget to source a small scale '262 as well.

I'm wondering of some cotton wool clouds would help hide so of the supports.

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Mossie / Me262 Dogfight Double
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 Post subject: Re: Mossie / Me262 Dogfight Double
PostPosted: February 4th, 2012, 3:13 am 
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Why is he so confused ?
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As I view that boxart, I see an Me-262 in the background evidently firing at a bomb-carrying Me-262 which is about to overfly a rocket carrying Mossie ...

Am I missing something ? I'm sure we can do fine work representing it, but would it help to figure out what the story is ?

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Mossie / Me262 Dogfight Double
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 Post subject: Re: Mossie / Me262 Dogfight Double
PostPosted: February 4th, 2012, 4:05 am 
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Clint Eastwood infiltrates an enemy base to steal a super-secret jet fighter...oh, wait.... :ha:

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Mossie / Me262 Dogfight Double
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 Post subject: Re: Mossie / Me262 Dogfight Double
PostPosted: February 4th, 2012, 2:54 pm 
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PaulBradley wrote:
Frog one would be fine. Don't forget to source a small scale '262 as well.


An Eduard 1/144 Me262A-2a is winging its way towards me as I write this. I looked for 1/200 but was quite frankly unwilling to pay the requisite prices!

PaulBradley wrote:
I'm wondering of some cotton wool clouds would help hide so of the supports.


Yep, I'm wondering about supports as well. My first thought - given the "in your face" nature of the box art - was to have the supports horizontal and hidden behind the models, going into the background. This may be difficult 'structurally'.

Of course, we could do the traditional vertical supports but then we would need a base to secure the support. Any chance you could take the background as a pattetn, and do a partial cloud / ground background below? I could then do cotton wool or something on the supports to de-emphasise them.

regards,

Martin


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Mossie / Me262 Dogfight Double
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 Post subject: Re: Mossie / Me262 Dogfight Double
PostPosted: February 4th, 2012, 3:40 pm 
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Wel, it's going to need a base in any situation, but that's easy enough. I do need a high resolution scan of the artwork to work from.

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Mossie / Me262 Dogfight Double
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 Post subject: Re: Mossie / Me262 Dogfight Double
PostPosted: February 4th, 2012, 5:46 pm 
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jRatz wrote:
As I view that boxart, I see an Me-262 in the background evidently firing at a bomb-carrying Me-262 which is about to overfly a rocket carrying Mossie ...

Am I missing something ? I'm sure we can do fine work representing it, but would it help to figure out what the story is ?


John,

You're trying to apply logic in what is an exciting piece of artwork by the estimable Mr Cross, which only exists to says "Buy ME!" to Little Johnny. :ha:

It would be equally valid to ask why the German "Defence of the Reich" Bf109Gs are firing rockets at Beaufighters, when as every student of Commando comics knows, it only ever happened the other way round. :lol:

Other thoughts: what is the pilot of the Airfix A-26 Invader firing at? More importantly, what is the pilot of the F6F Hellcat in the background of the artwork firing rockets at? As he doesn't appear to be on an attack run trajectory, has he made a switchology foul up and is firing at an air-to-air target? Finally, how come the tracer fire from the Sunderland mid-upper gunner is going in a dead straight line towards the FW200? He must be traversing the turret to exactly counteract the motion of his aircraft :shock: Clever chap!

regards,

Martin


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Mossie / Me262 Dogfight Double
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 Post subject: Re: Mossie / Me262 Dogfight Double
PostPosted: February 4th, 2012, 5:54 pm 
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PaulBradley wrote:
Wel, it's going to need a base in any situation, but that's easy enough. I do need a high resolution scan of the artwork to work from.


Paul,

My initial thought was that the "base" would have been the vertical artwork itself, the aircraft being cantilevered out from it and towards the 'audience' a la the old FROG Skybase. Of course, you then need to mount the vertical artwork from a load-bearing backboard or something (which might not exist at Telford). A complicated and potentially non-robust solution. This just goes to show why I don't generally do this kind of thing. I kind of think about things the wrong way round . . . :sad:

After a pause for my logic circuits to kick in, I absolutely agree that a base sounds like an eminently sensible idea!

A high resolution scan of the artwork. Hmmmm. I'm guessing that the artwork that I posted above would be OK but for the huge crease in it due to the book binding. If you could photoshop out the crease, I can see if I can find someone with a scanner, take a scan of it, and then send the artwork out to you. Being an IT non-starter, what kind of resolution are you looking for?

regards,

Martin


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Mossie / Me262 Dogfight Double
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 Post subject: Re: Mossie / Me262 Dogfight Double
PostPosted: February 4th, 2012, 6:30 pm 
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At least 300 dpi, Martin, and yes, I can work out the crease. The bigger it is, the more I have to work with and the larger backdrop I can provide. A separate scan of each page would be good - I can paste them together.

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Mossie / Me262 Dogfight Double
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 Post subject: Re: Mossie / Me262 Dogfight Double
PostPosted: February 4th, 2012, 8:20 pm 
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Why is he so confused ?
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When your background has "no ground" so to speak, then think about curving the bottom forward, much like a photo booth. Then you can stiffen the background with a matching sides. If I could draw on the post I'd show you what I mean ...

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Mossie / Me262 Dogfight Double
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 Post subject: Re: Mossie / Me262 Dogfight Double
PostPosted: February 11th, 2012, 5:37 pm 
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jRatz wrote:
When your background has "no ground" so to speak, then think about curving the bottom forward, much like a photo booth. Then you can stiffen the background with a matching sides. If I could draw on the post I'd show you what I mean ...


John,

I know what you mean - at least, I think I do. In fact, the ideal would be a panorama curving in two dimensions - but that's a bit beyond me! However, I will speak to my father-in-law regarding what's achievable as he's a chippy.

On another note, my Eduard 1/144 scale Me262 dual combo has arrived. Nice little kits, although I'll have to mock up a pilot for the one I use in the DD. Certainly not bad for ~£8 inc p&p.

And on yet another note, I wonder if I could mount the 1/72 262 to the backboard by mounting a support rod in each engine exhaust pipe?

regards,

Martin

regards,

Martin


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Mossie / Me262 Dogfight Double
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 Post subject: Re: Mossie / Me262 Dogfight Double
PostPosted: April 4th, 2012, 1:53 pm 
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I've got a nagging suspicion I'm storing up trouble by doing the building before sorting out the background, but . . . .

. . . here is the 144th Eduard Me262A, as the background 262, White 7.

Image

Build thread here: http://uamf.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=200&t=3377

The foreground '262 will be the old FROG kit, being built as we speak as part of the Early Jets GB. At least for this one, I've got an idea how I want to mount it.

regards,

Martin


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Mossie / Me262 Dogfight Double
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 Post subject: Re: Mossie / Me262 Dogfight Double
PostPosted: April 4th, 2012, 4:57 pm 
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That little 262 looks superb Martin - I love it. Mounting wise for the 1/72 Me262 I'd go with what the guys are saying - personally for me it would be an acrylic rod -hole drilled behind the cockpit midway to the tail and the rod shoved in tight - with the other end pushed through a hole drilled through the backdrop into a batten mounted behind. The Mossie would be mounted on a rod coming up from the baseboard just like my Lancaster in G for George. To be honest I think trying to disguise them with cotton wool will only actuully draw attention to them - but it may be worth a try so maybe take photos with and without and see which looks best.

Trust me - I've not heard a single negative comment from the three shows we've done yet about the methods of mounting employed, the use of cardboard cut outs or use of smaller scale models for forced perspective, but quite the opposite in fact - everyone has been enthusing about the overall effect and representation of the box art as a concept in total. Yours will certainly be one of the more dynamic looking scenarios so I'd sit back and wait for the praise top come rolling in once it's finished mate.

cheers
Al.

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Mossie / Me262 Dogfight Double
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 Post subject: Re: Mossie / Me262 Dogfight Double
PostPosted: May 4th, 2012, 7:00 pm 
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1/72 FROG Me262 finished. Depending on time, I may have another go at this, because I'm not particularly happy with the mottle. Will be mounted via rods entering in the engine exhausts.

Image

Build thread here:

http://uamf.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=203&t=3510

regards,

Martin


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