The Tower - General Aviation Chat

[MerlinJones]

This is the result of this particular thread;
http://uamf.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=3070&start=15;

8 definites and a few 'maybe' participants.

Completely lacking the glamour of the military stuff, (unless you happen to own one), these aircraft are the mainstays of aviation across the world and generally neglected by the kit companies.
FROG did the DH88 Comet racer, Supermarine S6B and the Gipsy Moth, both as a part of their Trailblazer series.
Airfix, for all its modelling might, managed a DH88 Comet racer, S6B and a Piper Cherokee.

Military versions of civil types abound and there are plenty of civil versions of ex-military types.
This GB aims to look at those subjects which don't fit into the latter, but may fit into the former. That said, we don't want the military versions in the GB, thank you very much!

When does a small, civil aircraft become an airliner? For the sake of this GB, anything that'll carry more than 8 people is out of bounds, so no dH Doves or Heron. If you want to join in, but need clearance from the Tower, ask away.

Feel free to set up your own thread, for your own build and let's fly polite!

Regards,
Bruce

[MerlinJones]

Airfix, for all its modelling might, managed a DH88 Comet racer, S6B and a Piper Cherokee.

I'll score a point or two here:
Beagle Basset (how could you forget that one?)
DH 82A Tiger Moth

Still thinking ... I'm almost sure that there's more.

Edit: Avro 504k!!!!

I know you're going to say that at least two of the above are "former military types" but the 504, at least, was produced-new for civil purposes.

I deliberately ignored those with more military applications.
If you're after points, then the Basset was the RAF's aircraft, the civil version being the Beagle B.206. Airfix never sold a Beagle B206.
(The SA Bulldog, before you mention it, was a military aircraft, sold off at bargain prices to the civil market, around 2001).
The DH82 Tiger Moth was a military development of the DH60 Gipsy Moth, designed from the outset as a military primary trainer.
Likewise the Avro 504 was a service development of the civil Avro 500.

There are plenty of military aircraft, since acquired for civil use and I'm hoping that we could avoid these, as building military subjects is not what the GB is about, whether wearing warpaint or not.

Regards,
Bruce

[JohnRatzenberger]

I have 3 4 options:
-- 1/48 Cessna 172, done as the aircraft I soloed and licensed in.
-- 1/48 Pitcairn Autogiro; might want to save for a Whirlibird GB though
-- how about the early days 1903-1912ish ? I have some 48/72 Lifelike & Entex kits of the early birds -- would they "fly"?
-- 1/72 Boeing Model 40 mail plane; single cockpit, 2 passengers; may be a bit complex given my schedule.

Are any of these no-goes ? Any opinions ?

[Gregers]

How about the good old Chipmunk?. I would go for one built and flown only in civvie markings and never carried military colours or serial nor entered military service. Surely fits the bill of a light civil aircraft? (and having stick time in Chipmunks I can vouch for their very civil nature)

All the best.

Greg.

[MerlinJones]

I have 3 4 options:
-- 1/48 Cessna 172, done as the aircraft I soloed and licensed in.
-- 1/48 Pitcairn Autogiro; might want to save for a Whirlibird GB though
-- how about the early days 1903-1912ish ? I have some 48/72 Lifelike & Entex kits of the early birds -- would they "fly"?
-- 1/72 Boeing Model 40 mail plane; single cockpit, 2 passengers; may be a bit complex given my schedule.

Are any of these no-goes ? Any opinions ?

'Early days' is pushing the envelope a little, as there were no military aircraft back then and I really suspect that a Cody Flyer, for example, would fit the civil aviation bill!
For my tastes, the Cessna 172 and Boeing Model 40 are the better choices and more in keeping with the spirit of the build. The Model 40 seems to fit in the same bracket as the DH9 and Wallace.

How about the good old Chipmunk?. I would go for one built and flown only in civvie markings and never carried military colours or serial nor entered military service. Surely fits the bill of a light civil aircraft? (and having stick time in Chipmunks I can vouch for their very civil nature)

All the best.

Greg.

The Chipmunk was designed and built as a primary trainer and not as a light civil/general aviation aircraft. If your imagination and Stash can only stretch that far, I suppose you could go for it, although we've already had a (poorly attended) Chipmunk GB.

[Gregers]

Not a lack of imagination Bruce. More a love of the subject matter. For the last 50 years there have been two aircraft that were the worlds leading 'Pilot makers' the Ubiquitous Cessna 150/152 and the dear old Chipmunk.
Now for the stash. Want rare or imaginative?. I know you like to see rare kits built don't you. I have an Aurora Piper Apache that fits the bill for rarity.An SA Bulldog that could be converted to a Beagle Pup or Bullfinch (G-BDOG if you want to look it up - imaginative enough?) A Slingsby Venture (Designed as a civvie motor glider and adopted by the RAF for ATC use. A Gipsy moth or three,) The Piper Cherokee is in there also and there are other candidates that I care not to build at this time. There you go. The Prototype Chipmunk is what I WAS going to build for this one.
Forget it. I'm pulling from this build.

Greg.

[splash]

I have these two to play with but I think you might say no to the SIAT

[MerlinJones]

Okay...a bit of clarification as to what this GB is about.
Anyone who has visted an airshow and/or wandered around the many smaller flying fields, will be aware of countless smaller planes that are un-named to many of us. I'm talking of the Cessnas and Pipers, the Beechcraft and Zlins.
There are hundreds and thousands of these and each are their owners pride and joy.
...And then there are the workhorses;
The arial taxis and commuters, the mailplanes and surveyors. All still quite small and never quite making it up to the category of 'airliner'.
There are hundreds of thousands of these as well.

Since the Great War, aviation has been available to a great many people, to pootle about the skies and to rise above the rest of us. For all the resources, it usually isn't the military that broke the records, but the civilians; Lindberg, Johnson, Earhart and their ilk.

The latter have been kitted, if only by trailblazing FROG. The rest, generally, remain unkitted and, what few kits there are, remain unbuilt.

As I saw it, the whole purpose of this GB was to address that deficit.
Not to build more Beagles and Chipmunks, Austers and Tiger Moths, but to build those Cessnas and Pipers, languishing in the Stash whilst the Chipmunks and Beagles get the built glory.

The kits are out there, but not as advertised as their military contempories.
Eidai and LS produced them of old.
AModel, AZ Models and even Hobby Boss produce them today.

So THIS is the GB I'm moderating, commencing on the 1st June.
If this isn't the GB you want, then there's still time for someone else to take it on and to have swords turned into ploughshares.

Regards,
Bruce

[MerlinJones]

My potential options are as follows, (all in 1/72);

AModel Aero 45
AModel PZL 104 Wilga Utility
Airfix DH88 Comet racer
Airfix Piper Cherokee Arrow II
Airlines (FROG) DH88 Comet racer
Arii Aero Subaru
Aurora Piper Cherokee 180
AZ Models Zlin Z-281/C-6
Eidai Beechcraft Bonanza
Eidai Cessna 172 (with floats)
FROG Ryan "Spirit of St. Louis"
Hobby Boss Zlin Z-42M
Krugozor Ryan "Spirit of St. Louis"
LS Pitts S-2A Special "Canadian Reds"
Revell Junkers F13

Regards,
Bruce

[Gregers]

I honestly know where you are coming from with this Bruce, and I was torn between the Chipmunk and a few others including the same Cessna kit that Splash has or an ARII 172 float plane. Another option for me was the DH/HS125 demonstrator as in the Matchbox kit but thought that a little big for this build and unfortunately I have started my Mooney Mite otherwise that would have been a serious contender.
I believe that the Chipmunk prototype fitted the bill as it was built as a company demonstrator and that particular aircraft was never intended for military service.
Also to quote your first post in the original thread.

Airfix may only have done the Piper Cherokee, although the SA Bulldog could be civil-ised and, of course, there's the Tiger Moth. Speaking of biplanes, perhaps someone has a FROG Gipsy Moth to play with?

And you also mention the Beaver which was heavily utilised by various military arms, added to that when I mentioned the Chipmunk there were no objections.

All the best.

Greg

[VMA131Marine]

I think they are old LS kits, but Arii does kits in 1/72 of the Cessna 172, Cessna T337 Skymaster (civilian version of the O-2), Aero Subaru Fuji FA-200, Beechcraft V35 Bonanza, and a double kit of the BD-5 and BD-5J mini jet.

[JohnRatzenberger]

OK, I'll choose between the Cessna 172 and the Boeing 40 -- I want ot do them both one day. The Boeing 40 is resin, complex both in build and in markings, and would have to be rigged -- and I have a Bunch of photos of the one in the Seattle Museum of Flight. But it is so Cool !! The Cessna 172 will be easier. I have a sheet of generic Cessna slant codes for the markings. Neither will get me CBK credit.

[TomW]

Two of the old Eidai kits from me, the Beechcraft Bonanza and Aero Subaru, if time permits I may also have a go at a Hobbyboss Zlin or an LS Pitts Special.

Regards

Tom

[English Electric]

I'm definitely up for this... but I need a hand identifying the kit! Yes, it's the DH88 Comet Racer... but it's not the Frog or Airfix variety. No glazing supplied (ah well, we are modellers after all...) but quite small and flash free. No panel lines or interior either... The box it came in was an old cardboard one, with a name and addy typed on the front. No postmark/date. Maybe a freebie kit - collect so many tokens etc etc... Anyway...







apologies for the awful pics!!

I also have an Academy Beechcraft Bonanza going free if anyone wants one for this GB... it's in 1/48, so not my scale...

C

[MerlinJones]

Hmmm...did you get any cornflakes with it?