HMS Victory
- Chuck E
- Established 1949
- Posts: 2421
- Joined: May 3rd, 2011, 8:05 pm
- Location: Darlington. Home of the Railways
HMS Victory
This is the very old Airfix HMS Victory. It actually works out at just under 1/700 scale. This original 1955 model was the first Airfix kit I ever had. I remember sitting with my Dad in our flat building this one.
The old kit has famously too many sails. The Box Art is accurate, but that's about it. You can still make a nice little model out of this kit though. I'll post the photos here.
Hull halves. Originally this was a waterline model, so I'm cutting the hull away.
She's not quite as sharp as she was. Here are the hull halves cut down. She will be leaning a bit to port, so I've built that in.
Hull halves cemented together. I'm leaving as much of the original detail as possible.
Here she is, posed against a print in the correct scale.
And the masts laid over the same print. You can see the problems.
Here are the sails, all cut down to match. The sails on the jib need cutting back to a pair.
Here are all the bits laid out ready for assembly to start. I have replaced the masts with cocktail sticks and fine brass tube.
The Atlantic Etched set.
The hull painted up using the little pots from the starter kit, which is the one I'm using.
The transom now has a nice decal. You used to cut the print from the paper header.
Bit of weathering to do . . . . .
Halfords primer on the sails.
Some Citadel sepia wash to tone down the sails.
Hull weathered.
Sails weathered.
Some of the ratlines added.
More rigging.
More to come soon . . . . . . . .
The old kit has famously too many sails. The Box Art is accurate, but that's about it. You can still make a nice little model out of this kit though. I'll post the photos here.
Hull halves. Originally this was a waterline model, so I'm cutting the hull away.
She's not quite as sharp as she was. Here are the hull halves cut down. She will be leaning a bit to port, so I've built that in.
Hull halves cemented together. I'm leaving as much of the original detail as possible.
Here she is, posed against a print in the correct scale.
And the masts laid over the same print. You can see the problems.
Here are the sails, all cut down to match. The sails on the jib need cutting back to a pair.
Here are all the bits laid out ready for assembly to start. I have replaced the masts with cocktail sticks and fine brass tube.
The Atlantic Etched set.
The hull painted up using the little pots from the starter kit, which is the one I'm using.
The transom now has a nice decal. You used to cut the print from the paper header.
Bit of weathering to do . . . . .
Halfords primer on the sails.
Some Citadel sepia wash to tone down the sails.
Hull weathered.
Sails weathered.
Some of the ratlines added.
More rigging.
More to come soon . . . . . . . .
So many models, so little time.
- Dirkpitt289
- NUMA's Auto Mechanic
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Re: HMS Victory
Very cool. They were just talking about how to make the sails look more realistic on the Amazing Plastic Across the Pond hangout this weekend. Good stuff
.... Dirk
Beware of the DOG's of WAR
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Re: HMS Victory
Whilst researching for my build of the Airfix 01267G kit of Victory I looked in on the Official site. In amongst the wealth of information were the ship's dimensions, and I recalled a discussion regarding the dubious scale of this kit.
Here's what the site specified against the measurements of the kit:
Foremast 182' = 3.64" at 1/600. Kit 3.60"
Main mast 205' = 4.10" at 1/600. Kit 3.82"
Mizzen mast 152' = 3.04" at 1/600. Kit 3.57"
Length from bowsprit to taffrails 226' = 4.52" at 1/600. Kit 5.31" (roughly)
Width 51' = 1.02" at 1/600. Kit 1.10"
From this we can see that the kit is a bit short, exceptfor the Mizzen, which is too tall - Over-long - but about the right width
Here's what the site specified against the measurements of the kit:
Foremast 182' = 3.64" at 1/600. Kit 3.60"
Main mast 205' = 4.10" at 1/600. Kit 3.82"
Mizzen mast 152' = 3.04" at 1/600. Kit 3.57"
Length from bowsprit to taffrails 226' = 4.52" at 1/600. Kit 5.31" (roughly)
Width 51' = 1.02" at 1/600. Kit 1.10"
From this we can see that the kit is a bit short, exceptfor the Mizzen, which is too tall - Over-long - but about the right width
All models are equal. Some models are more equal than others.
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- Chuck E
- Established 1949
- Posts: 2421
- Joined: May 3rd, 2011, 8:05 pm
- Location: Darlington. Home of the Railways
Re: HMS Victory
Was the kit ever listed as being in a set scale, Ratch ? I've measured again and I reckon that the kit is 104 mm long and the original 69m ( 69000mm ) so I work that out to 1/663. I've reduced a side view painting to match the kit to give me the correct balance, so the masts had to be replaced. The heights of masts are taken from the waterline, so this may be where the original scale problems came from, as the ones in the kit have been made to deck level, or in 1/600 scale. With an undersized hull, these are now way too tall and it would be a waste of time trimming them. The added height may be the reason that Airfix added an extra sail to every mast. In light airs, extra sails would be added to the yards rather than high up on another yard. ( They also wetted the sails to make them draw. )
With the new masts the old kit looks very neat, regardless of actual scale. I would prefer to mount it on it's own base, though should I ever put it on a base with more modern ships, I'd go for 1/700 models to give a better representation. As you say, the kit scale is rather dubious, but I suppose that we ignore that and just build our old kits. Normally I would build a classic straight from the box, but in this case I've decided to try and balance the proportions. The masts are definitely a different scale from the hull. As a Stand-alone model, I think she will look OK. I always though the scale was 1/600 for all the small ships and 1/144th for all the larger sailing ships. When I started actually measuring them, I found huge variations.
More info here. http://www.hms-victory.com/index.php?op ... Itemid=494;
With the new masts the old kit looks very neat, regardless of actual scale. I would prefer to mount it on it's own base, though should I ever put it on a base with more modern ships, I'd go for 1/700 models to give a better representation. As you say, the kit scale is rather dubious, but I suppose that we ignore that and just build our old kits. Normally I would build a classic straight from the box, but in this case I've decided to try and balance the proportions. The masts are definitely a different scale from the hull. As a Stand-alone model, I think she will look OK. I always though the scale was 1/600 for all the small ships and 1/144th for all the larger sailing ships. When I started actually measuring them, I found huge variations.
More info here. http://www.hms-victory.com/index.php?op ... Itemid=494;
So many models, so little time.
- JohnRatzenberger
- Why is he so confused ?
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Re: HMS Victory
Well, Chuck E, you've shown a very neat way to approach the problem. Reduce a scale drawing to match one major component, in this case the hull, then whack away at everything else to achieve proportionality and make exact scale somewhat irrelevant. Quite enjoyable & educational ...
John Ratzenberger
It's my model and I'll do what I want with it.
It's my model and I'll do what I want with it.
Re: HMS Victory
No Chuck, I think all these little ships were just box/bag scale - I don't think constant scaling was considered in the 50's when these were tooled up 60 - 70 years on we tend to look at them through different eyes and not the naïve ones of our childhoodChuck E wrote:Was the kit ever listed as being in a set scale, Ratch ?
I think it looks thereabouts when placed next to a 1/600 WW2 warship, but the only way to get an accurate Victory in that scale would be to scratchbuild As you say, this one's all over the place
All models are equal. Some models are more equal than others.
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Re: HMS Victory
Really nice work on a old kit!
And a really great ship, I still remember seeing her at Portsmouth.
And a really great ship, I still remember seeing her at Portsmouth.
Best from Ivan
Re: HMS Victory
Really excellent job! I'm sure I remember hearing once that you could get these little kits as "ships in bottles" as well...
I think you're maybe being a bit harsh about the kit rig... The Victory's own website article on "Masts" shows her with four sails per mast, and I'm sure she'd have been able to carry royals above the topgallant -- much smaller ships could, and it's a function of the strength of the the masts. There are certainly paintings showing her with royals and stunsails set, even going into battle. Personally (and this is based on no more than a 20-year enthusiasm for the Aubrey/Maturin books and some reading around in Brian Lavery's works on 19th century ships of war and the navy -- I'm no sailor), I think it's unlikely she'd be fighting with the courses set, but if you look at various marine artists' takes on Victory cutting the line at Trafalgar, you can pay your money and take your choice...
bestest,
M.
I think you're maybe being a bit harsh about the kit rig... The Victory's own website article on "Masts" shows her with four sails per mast, and I'm sure she'd have been able to carry royals above the topgallant -- much smaller ships could, and it's a function of the strength of the the masts. There are certainly paintings showing her with royals and stunsails set, even going into battle. Personally (and this is based on no more than a 20-year enthusiasm for the Aubrey/Maturin books and some reading around in Brian Lavery's works on 19th century ships of war and the navy -- I'm no sailor), I think it's unlikely she'd be fighting with the courses set, but if you look at various marine artists' takes on Victory cutting the line at Trafalgar, you can pay your money and take your choice...
bestest,
M.
Re: HMS Victory
Mayflower, Cutty Sark and this, the Charles Morgan Whaler were reissues of Gowland & Gowland/Revell kitsmattbacon wrote:I'm sure I remember hearing once that you could get these little kits as "ships in bottles" as well...
All models are equal. Some models are more equal than others.
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- JohnRatzenberger
- Why is he so confused ?
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Re: HMS Victory
Perhaps 95% of the pix/illustrations I have seen show Victory with 3 sails per mast. I have seen a few prints with four and I wonder if they were not in light airs. It would require raising a yard and appropriate rigging. I am away from my library, where I have several books on HMS Victory and could do some research on it. (I have the Heller kit to be done, one of these days ...)
John Ratzenberger
It's my model and I'll do what I want with it.
It's my model and I'll do what I want with it.
- Chris
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Re: HMS Victory
That is superb work Chuck, a real joy to watch an old classic corrected and done right.
Honcho of ASMMF
- Chuck E
- Established 1949
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- Joined: May 3rd, 2011, 8:05 pm
- Location: Darlington. Home of the Railways
Re: HMS Victory
Thanks for the info and comments, chaps. The Bottled Airfix looks really interesting. I've never seen that kit from Airfix, though it's been around a while.
Is the bottle in two halves ?
Is the bottle in two halves ?
So many models, so little time.
- nashorn
- The Bug Has Well And Truly Bitten
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Re: HMS Victory
Hi, i have never taken much notice of the small victory kit, but must say you have done a great job on it, it makes me want to get one now.
rich.
rich.
Rich.
- martin hale
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Re: HMS Victory
You have got me wondering about my Airfix HMS Shannon kit now.
Martin
Martin
- Chuck E
- Established 1949
- Posts: 2421
- Joined: May 3rd, 2011, 8:05 pm
- Location: Darlington. Home of the Railways
Re: HMS Victory
I remember having a model of HMS Shannon, still in it's poly bag, but I can't seem to find it anywhere. I was thinking of trying to get the whole collection again. I'll do them as waterline models though, just like the originals.
Golden Hind
Revenge
Shannon
Great Western
Cutty Sark
Victory
Santa Maria
Mayflower
I remember having the Discovery too, but I think it was a modified Cutty Sark as Airfix only did this in the larger scale. I remember walking around Discovery many years ago. I was very impressed that so small a ship did what she did.
Golden Hind
Revenge
Shannon
Great Western
Cutty Sark
Victory
Santa Maria
Mayflower
I remember having the Discovery too, but I think it was a modified Cutty Sark as Airfix only did this in the larger scale. I remember walking around Discovery many years ago. I was very impressed that so small a ship did what she did.
So many models, so little time.