Telford 2013

Discussion of the CBK SIG Display for SMW 2013. Rebuilding some of your earliest modelling memories.

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Stamford
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Re: Telford 2013

Post by Stamford »

Just read through this and would love one day to come over and be a part of all this madness! How about some comparison builds with the new toolings up against the oldies? That would start a few back in the day discussions anyway!
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Re: Telford 2013

Post by mightymikeD »

I'm very excited by John's idea.. and agree with Al: folk won't remember the exact advert but will recognise the style. I think this would be an excellent way to proceed.
And it might be interesting to recreate an "ad art" display or two, looking just like a grayscale picture of a model ?
A world of possibilities, right there..

I have some (limited) Graphic Design skills & tools and would be very happy to (if neccesary) "create" old-style ads to fit with certain models (say, for instance, John can't find the Sunderland ad)
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Re: Telford 2013

Post by PaulBradley »

As a matter of interest, here are the Airfix and Frog release lists for 1963

Airfix

Yak-9D
EE Lightning
F-104
25-pdr gun
E-Type Jaguar
Ariel Arrow
Julius Caesar
Douglas Boston
Hudson
HMS Devonshire
Scammel Scarab
CH-46 Sea Knight
HMS Warspite
B-24J
SS France
Endeavour
Royal Sovereign

FROG

Airspeed Oxford
Bristol Beaufort
Dewoitine D.520
Douglas Havoc/Boston III
Fokker D.XXI
Hotspur glider
Sea Fury
Macchi C.202
Martin Baltimore
Martin Marauder
Miles Magister
Miles Master
Percival Proctor
Westland Wessex
HMS Ashanti
HMS Exeter
HMS Revenge/Royal Sovereign
HMS Torquay
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Re: Telford 2013

Post by JohnRatzenberger »

@Paul, etc: If we think "what was available in '63", it opens a window a few years earlier. Not that it's the Dawn of Civilization but Airfix Magazine came out in June 1960.

@Matt, all: Good point about the ads I showed being before many folks times, but maybe, since we've talked about showing models over the years (what can you do, changing of guard), then we could seque a few ads from old to newer and give them the same treatment.

Imagine, if you will, an old ad for an Airfix Swordfish and an ad for the new-tool. We could have old kit, old ad, old box art, new kit, new ad, new boxart ... and some other stuff in between ...
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Re: Telford 2013

Post by PaulBradley »

I can work on lists for earlier releases if necessary.

By careful use of supporting materials, we wouldn't necessarily need so many models on the table .
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Re: Telford 2013

Post by JohnRatzenberger »

PaulBradley wrote: By careful use of supporting materials, we wouldn't necessarily need so many models on the table .
Agree and if we think in "clusters", we can shrink/expand each as needed for a pleasing display ...
-- air
-- sea
-- mil
-- auto
-- figure / dinos / birds / animals
-- train / macinery
-- sci-fi / space

Within each "cluster" we select one or more models, variety counts, to illustrate what we want about CBK ... oldie but goodie, what you can do, changing of guard (or not?) ... with supporting things to bring back memories or create them ....

We also look to integrate/transition the clusters in some way, that impacts the choice of content within a cluster .... maybe it's best to think of them as virtual clusters so we don't start creating boundaries ...
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Re: Telford 2013

Post by Martin R »

Well, I don't quite yet have an image of what we're trying to do, but then I've never been the fastest on the uptake. :ha: However, it does sound jolly interesting.

I have an Airfix Beau and Boston to contribute if required. I still fancy having a go at a Halibag, too!

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Re: Telford 2013

Post by Viking »

bit like Martin; i cannt quite visualise what is being proposed yet; but happy to contribute a ship or two (i am aiming to be at telford this year)

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Re: Telford 2013

Post by MDT »

Late as ever to contribute but I like many ideas so far...Whilst I'm not overly keen on concentrating on just 1963 (probably as I was -11!), I like the idea of period kits and adverts together. How about breaking this into modelling decades, with a cluster of the best CBKs of that era or decade? With some the artistic talent of this forum we could put a period background to each decade with ads and catalogs etc to push some of the nostalgia. For example, the nostalgic era for me was late 70s/early 80s so I'd have a bit of Matchbox (Fury?/classic armour/cars)...Airfix with a Vulcan (still only game in town) or Hawk and maybe Star Wars realated on a base decorated with model adert etc. Maybe even music art/TV of that era. After all many of my early memories of buidling kits was to a background of period TV/music. You probably think its a bit nuts but I thought it combined many of the previous good ideas into a different slant to appeal to wider ages. Just my 2pence worth!...with whatever we decide on I'm up for contributing this year as I missed taking part last year lots.
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Re: Telford 2013

Post by PaulBradley »

An idea with merit, but as the Classic British Kits SIG, we'd have to limit ourselves to the 60/70/80s only.
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Re: Telford 2013

Post by JamesPerrin »

Sorry it's taken me ages to find the time to go through all the posts carefully (I've been working on it on the train all week). I've made notes as I've gone along so apologies if I belabour any points clarified later on.

BTW as Matt said We need a ~100 kits, but only IF there isn't much else on the table. Some of these ideas would use a lot and ancillary material.

Modelling in 1963
Matt Bacon

1) There is no point in restricting ourselves to kits that first appeared in 1963. We don't don't build kits that were only release in 2013 do we.

2) The how we do it then and now modelling techniques has merit but pragamtic isssues in that for the display to work both kits must be completed for the show. If one kit doesn't make it some elses hard work won't fit it. Also what change are we really showing, build OOB now is not really much different from OOB in 1963 if you take away the airbrush. I don't think building on 1963 style should mean looking like an 8yr old built it. Also I'm sure there were modellers who added detail to their kits back in '63 too. I'm not sure spend a lot of money on aftermarket accessories to replace 50% of a CBK is in the spirit of the SIG. eg The Frog Sabre should be built for it's own sake, if you want really want a detailed Sabre by a you be better off buying a modern tooling.


Rather than it being the template for the whole display, if we can come up with two or three kits that show significant and obvious improvement, with better paint job (airbrush), more comprehensive decals and scratchbuilt details then it might be interesting.

Vehicles of 1963
splash

I like this suggestion too, though I prefer ideas based around the kits rather than a generic theme that we illustrate with CBKs.

New vs Old
Martin R


Initially I didn't like the idea of building non-CBK kits, but we could make this fun by calling it spot the CBK. The modern tooling kits built out of the box, the CBK gets the full Mike Grant treatment and maybe uses the same markings (even decals) and then we have cards on table which the public can flip over to review which it the new kit. The problem though is again we need both kits completed for it to work. Secondly the results depend a lot on the skills of the modellers involved and I'm not sure how we could organise it to get consistent results. eg brush painted new tool vs airbrushed old?


Small Manufacturers
Various

My biggest problem with this idea that although it seems a great idea the actual display will be an academical exercise. Too nerdy for a public show. It will be of interest to a portion of fellow modellers but will be a just another table of aeroplanes to the general public. Secondly it will mainly be just aeroplanes as that's what the majority of smaller/cottage industry manufacturers produce with the exception of Rosebud/Kitmaster. Also as Matt has pointed out we don't have a glut of vacform modellers and the build rate would preclude those willing from doing more than one or two.


My feeling is that this would only work if we focused on two or three manufactureres to avoid it being a haphazard collection. It would be nice to see all 10 Inpact kits built side-by-side with supporting information. Kitmaster locos, but who else? Maybe it's an idea for a small show display in the future but definitely not Telford. I think this idea would be better served by a CBK GB on the website.

NOTE: many of these manufacturers did get an airing during the 101 GEMS display.


Ad Art + other stuff
JohnR

I like John's idea of basing a display around the magazines and adverts of the time. Simple and effective. This follows on nicely from the Box Art build when we started using magazines a modelling resource and aid.

I'm not keen on doing more Box Art build (we need to be brave and again try something new) and Ad Art is a watered down version. We can always return to the rich seam that is Box Art some time in the future.

I don't think we need you need to complicate thing by trying to do more than one thing on the table; adding updated and new tools, too confusing too many concepts trying to be put across at once.


In the days of black and white
James

This is my throwaway idea. Taking the very loose idea that in 1963 everything was in black and white. Divide the table in half with a white and a black sheet. Black models on the white sheet and visa-versa. It allows for a breadth of models though of course rather limited markings options. A monochromatic display would look quite striking, though a bit dull if anyone ends up building a lot of models.
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Re: Telford 2013

Post by PaulBradley »

A combination of those ideas that encompass a 1963 over-arching theme would work, I think.

Following on from John's ideas, here a quick visual of how a 'cluster' could look:

Image

These are the 1955 Frog and 2011 Airfix Sabres, presented with their instructions. Supporting materials for illustrative purposes only - I threw away both Sabre boxes, and the mags are not themed to the cluster - but for each cluster, we could include the boxes, or boxart; typical modelling mags of each era; ads from mags; as well as typical references and other ephemera.

Other clusters could show the old and (soon-to-be) new Airfix Lancasters, old and new Airfix Jaguars sports cars (E-Type and XJR) and HMS Daring - Airfix old 1/600 and new 1/350, for example - this also means we don't have to be confined to aircraft. Nor does it have to be just Airfix of course - Frog were very active in the years leading up to 1963. We might also consider other, non-British brands for modern kits.

John and I have a ton of supporting materials of course, and I'm sure some of you are also collectors of old mags, books and model boxes/instruction sheets (John and I can't be the ONLY nerds here...! ;-) )

In any case, we ought to reach a decision shortly so we can plan and get building, whatever we decide to do. The Sabre cluster is ready though...! ;-)
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Re: Telford 2013

Post by beany »

That looks great Paul, precisely the kind of thing I had in mind, however the up-to or around '63 is still a sore point with me. If however it was more all encompassing (anywhere between 1963 and present day) 50 years of modelling, then we can do similar comparisons between FROG and NOVO/Chematic/Ark etc., and Matchbox and Revell re-pops which is the bit I'd be more interested in. Like you say though, a decision will be needed soon (I'll pester James all day tomorrow at Huddersfield :ha: ).
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Re: Telford 2013

Post by beany »

So James, Matt and I had a good, long chat about this at Huddersfield yesterday, and did we come up with a definitive idea for the display...

did we *@$%...... :roll:

I really am at a loss with this one. I don't even have a kernel of an idea what to do. My only consolation is that most of the other fora and SIGs I frequent are pretty much in the same boat and are having similar discussions.
I know James has obviously had other things on his mind but has still taken time to evaluate the suggestions offered up so far, and I felt Matt seems to have a better overall vision for a display idea so I'll be happy to go along with whatever he suggests. I hope it doesn't sound like I'm coping out, but if there is no inspiration there I can't force it. You never know, perhaps I'll have a Road to Damascus moment in the next few days/weeks. As such however, I probably won't be touring the display around the other three shows (Hudds, Cosford and Farnborough) next year like I have for the last two, so we may need another driver (or two) with a big car to do the honours.

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Re: Telford 2013

Post by Martin R »

Al,

Don't be so hard on yourself. Remember: if you have a vision, you should see a doctor!

I think we're all struggling, although now Paul B has posted his idea of a 'cluster', I now have a better idea of what is being suggested.


regards,

Martin
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