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Telford 2013
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 Post subject: Telford 2013
PostPosted: January 12th, 2013, 12:19 pm 
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So, what's the brief, chaps?

regards,

Martin


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Telford 2013
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PostPosted: January 12th, 2013, 1:40 pm 
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No brief as yet, but since there's this here thread, let's use it to discuss. I'll lob my suggestion in:

"1963 and all that"
A "time machine" theme, which seems appropriate given the IPMS Anniversary (and the fact that it's also the 50th Anniversary of Doctor Who...)

Build any CBK that you could have built in November 1963, which gives a whole lot of Airfixes, Frogs, Revell, Keil Kraft, Merit, Kitmaster and many more. Build it 1963 style, with the tools and techniques available then, or 2013 style, or anything in between. Build two, one in 1963 and one today, if you like (I think, for example, given the enthusiasm for Al's build in 2012, that a pair of Airfix Sunderlands, one done "old school" and one fully tarted up with the White Ensign etched parts and sectioned so that it's clearly on a par with the new Italeri kit, would attract a lot of comment.) Set up the table with a 1963 half and a 2013 half, with contextual material (old and new Airfix Magazines, Observer's books, and Flight international, for example) reminding everyone what Britain and the modeller's world was like in 1963 (Black and white, obviously...) and where we are today. Also in terms of modelling tools and techniques - balsa and talc in 1963, resin and etch in 2013. Show how CBKs span the gap, and can be built any way you like, and if we can, "pair off" the builds so there's the same kit on display in each half...

That's my proposal. Comments and discussion of this one, or alternative suggestions are welcomed!

bestest,
M.


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Telford 2013
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PostPosted: January 12th, 2013, 2:04 pm 
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Oh, now straight off the bat, I like Matt's idea - tons of potential there. I can supply some of the supporting materials as well as models. I even have the magazine in which IPMS was proposed.

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Telford 2013
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 Post subject: Re: Telford 2013
PostPosted: January 12th, 2013, 3:40 pm 
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1st mention I see is Nov 63 Airfix Magazine (although formed in July?) -- here's the contents:
News from Airfix - SS France, Jaguar E Type, Julius Caesar
In the air - Hawker Hunter
Military modelling - Sexton
Layout realism
Wheelspin
Shipping notes
Railway modelling - working lifting barrier level crossing, part 1
Profile - current aircraft markings - markings summary
Model Rail and Road Hobby Show
New books
Railway review
New kits and models
Reader's letters.


Note the balance of aircraft, military, trains, cars, shipping ...

Could be interesting to stay strictly in the 1963 era and let the rest of the hall be the counterpoint ....

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Telford 2013
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PostPosted: January 12th, 2013, 5:17 pm 
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Mine's from Flying Review Internatiaonal - I forget exactly which issue, but I have 1962-3 and 1963-4 bound. They had a modelling column in those days.

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Telford 2013
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PostPosted: January 12th, 2013, 7:04 pm 
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Hmmm! Sounds interesting.

I appreciate it's up to the collective to hammer out an answer, but in your views what would the theme be?

Here's what you could do in 1963

Or

Here's what you can do with what was available in 1963

Or . . .

Personally, I'd plump for the second, but: discuss!

regards,

Martin


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Telford 2013
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PostPosted: January 12th, 2013, 7:30 pm 
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Well, I'm in two minds as to which approach to take.While building strictly with 1963 tools and technology would be a great exercise, we don't have the same paints now, decals would likely be problematic, and I ain't hand-brushing anything nowadays! :ha: I'll have to think about what I'd plump for.

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Telford 2013
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PostPosted: January 12th, 2013, 8:19 pm 
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Purely as it may spark some further ideas . . .

Brews and I talked about doing a (old-style) FROG Typhoon build last year. This kit is pre-1963. I'm also aware that Airfix are bringing out a new-tool Typhoon this year. Building both straight out of the box would certainly show what had changed in the interim. However, we were talking about upgrading the old kit (scratched interior, wheel wells, changes to the OML, etc.), and such changes would of course tend to reduce the impact of any "then and now" comparison.

Don't know whether there are any other convenient "then and now" comparisons to be considered:

[Edit] Having had a trawl of information on ATF, and considering only Airfix at the mo, from my own aircraft- and predominantly WWII-biassed perspective:

Spitfire IX old / new
Swordfish old / new
Beaufighter old / Matchbox (new-er?)
P-51D old - original tool / P-51D new
Skyhawk old / new
Bf110D old / new
Mosquito old / new-er
Hurricane IV old / IIC new

regards,

Martin


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Telford 2013
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PostPosted: January 12th, 2013, 10:42 pm 
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From my foxhole, I'm in favor of doing it like we did in '63, but we don't need to be ridiculous. Paint is paint, decals are decals, glue is glue, tools are tools.

I'm not for tarting up a '63 era kit in modern aftermarket, etc -- done all the time, what's it really prove/show ? That you can spend all sorts of time to try and replicate a current kit that's better anyway ? It's not a good comparison -- if we want that, then we need to be OOB as Martin suggests above. I don't like the "defence" of CBK approach -- see I can do it just as well as modern stuff, which is rarely true. Even the "it's the only kit" is getting to be a weaker argument. I like CBK's but for themselves, as they are/were ....

If we're going to improve, enhance, detail, modify, convert something, then do it like we did back then -- scrap and wood and filler and cross-kit and actual work. The Airfix mags are full of that stuff. It's the way we were back then.

Like I said, let the rest of the hall show the counterpoint.

That said, I have a pile of duplicate Airfix Magazines, I'll have to go see about the early years. Many are duplicate because they were so ratty.

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Telford 2013
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PostPosted: January 12th, 2013, 11:03 pm 
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Point taken, John, but I feel we need to look at the middle ground then. I think we might explore Matt's thought about doing them 1963-style, but also as per today - a side-by-side comparison to show advances in technique and also the raising of standards in 50 years. I remember seeing some covers from late-sixties/early-seventies editions of the American 'Scale Modeler' magazine - they, frankly, look awful, with un-filled seams, dodgy decals and nasty hand-painting, because they didn't have the same skill set we use today. I'm just a little concerned that doing all straight-1963 models could end up looking like a horror movie.

I did do the original 1955 Frog Sabre straight OOB for the Frog display we did a few years back - even replacing some of the rivets I had to knock off to get rid of the seams - and used the original decals, so I know it can be done. Did the 1955 Canbeera too, but I knocked all the rivets off and had to replace some of the decals. It is an interesting exercise to be sure.

Image

Image

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Telford 2013
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PostPosted: January 13th, 2013, 12:35 am 
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I like Matt's idea.. one thing to bear in mind is that, in 1963, modeling was something that kids did (hence unfilled seam-lines etc)
These days it has become more of an adult's hobby (hence PE, Resin etc)
I like the idea of building a pre-63 kit, using paint, glue and decals but no aftermarket that would not have existed then.. and maybe a fully tricked-out version alongside. using our adult skills on kits that (some of us, I was born in 1976) experienced as children.

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Telford 2013
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PostPosted: January 13th, 2013, 12:39 am 
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My problem with the 1963 IPMS Anniversary things is that I was only 3 years old in 1963 and so wasn't building anything yet. I am afraid that the focus will be on the anniversary rather than the kits - we are not the Classic Modelling Anniversaries SIG per se but the Classic British Kits SIG. Our SIG display could be any subject we like for 2013; my understanding from the SIG leaders meeting at Telford was that there is to be a large separate display area for the IPMS Anniversary builds which anyone, including any of us, can contribute to. So the question is do we extend whatever is done there onto our tables/theme for Telford as well or do we something different for the SIG theme.

I'll be honest that I'm not over excited by any of these things, but also have nothing to suggest as an alternative for our theme, so will be more than happy to go with whatever you guys decide this year. I am also aware that we have been rather Airfixcentric in the Box Art displays so would dearly like to see a wider spread of British manufacturers represented in whatever we do choose as our 2013 theme. I will also keep those of you who don't visit there up to date with what the Airfix Modelling SIG will be choosing as a 2013 SMW theme as I fear that this year more than any there may be an inadvertent duplication of effort between us if we are not careful - this may be a reason to be a bit more esoteric with our theme this year?

Whilst I have very little personal experience of them, perhaps we should give the smaller British cottage industries a display of their own as I think Bruce has suggested recently. Ironically, doing something like this may see us inadvertently giving a nod back to that 60's anniversary era anyway!

Cheers
Al.

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Telford 2013
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 Post subject: Re: Telford 2013
PostPosted: January 13th, 2013, 1:09 am 
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Quote:
I am also aware that we have been rather Airfixcentric in the Box Art displays so would dearly like to see a wider spread of British manufacturers represented in whatever we do choose as our 2013 theme.


Unless I'm shurely mishtook, wasn't 1973 the year that Matchbox acquired AMT and entered the plastic model market? (Or am I dead wrong on this (as usual!)

Also
Quote:
I was only 3 years old in 1963 and so wasn't building anything yet


Slacker!! :ha:

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Telford 2013
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PostPosted: January 13th, 2013, 3:05 am 
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Well, I was 18 in 1963 -- some might say at my peak as a modeler :grin: I kinda take exception that 1963 means crappy modeling.

Paul, maybe I was too brief -- certainly I'm not suggesting we build them ugly on purpose -- skills are like paint, tools, etc -- they are what they are and I have no problem purging rivets, scribing or unscribing, etc. There wer folks back then who had good skills and could make something with them, we can use those same skills today. Just not aftermarket parts.

Al makes a good point about AMSIG, I would be quite happy to get more of the Cottage folk involved, be more than just Airfix'63. I think that a good opportunity for us to be ourselves.

I don't see a focus on 1963 as being on the IPMS Anniversary, but rather a way to use the IPMS Anniversary to focus on an aspect of CBK - yeah, it's semantics but it works.

Going back to Martin's early post where he posits two ideas
Martin R wrote:
Here's what you could do in 1963
Or
Here's what you can do with what was available in 1963


I keep looking at these trying to decide if he's just messing with us :???: because on the one hand the questions appear identical in meaning if not words, but on the other hand they may not be. I think what I have put forward more supports the 2nd version but I'd be hard pressed to explain the differences. Just to be clear I've already assumed paint, decals, tools, supplies, skills to be universal so its really just the aftermarket parts we exclude.

EDIT: Whoever set up the forum forgot to enable Fast Reply :evil: I fixed it 8-)

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Telford 2013
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PostPosted: January 13th, 2013, 3:10 am 
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In light of Beany's post. and some quality boosting by Bruce this year..
How about "Year Of the (Winged) Horse: Pegasus Kits"

http://uamf.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=4216

Not the easiest kits to build and quite WWI-Centric.. but what a great set-up for all the Centenary stuff next year..

Dumb idea?

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