Airfix Biggin Hill and Kitmaster Coach(es) build ....

[JohnRatzenberger]

FYI, I am hijacking my own thread with questions on British Rail, Southern region colors and markings ....
Now I'm going to start a long build of a passenger train ....

I have the Airfix Biggin Hill locomotive and all the Kitmaster coaches (with Peco interiors) and I thought I'd do them all in BR (Southern Route) green -- have I got that right even ?

The instructions for the coaches say that green coaches did not have a yellow line above/below the windows, only maroon coaches.
The instructions for locomotive show an orange lining on the engine & tender. The boxart shows this also but also shows the green coaches with yellow lines above/below the windows ...

So not being there in the early 50's, what's the right answer ? And any other hints/tips that might be handy ?

Thanks ...

[Dazzled]

Oohh right. You're in a bit of a minefield here JRatz, as there were variations from loco to loco and from various years. I've modelled railways for 27 years and am the Engineering Director for a heritage railway so I have a bit of an insight into this. I'll refer to paint numbers for paints by Phoenix Precision to help. their website is here.

http://www.phoenix-paints.co.uk/

As an alternative, you could go for paints from the Railmatch range distributed by Howes Models.

http://www.howesmodels.co.uk/Railways/v ... p?CatID=11

I've used both ranges of paints extensively and can recommend them highly.

First the loco. Malachite green would be correct for a Southern Railways Locomotive but not strictly correct for British Railways post 1947. Although most locos initially retained their "big four" liveries they were systematically repainted in BR colours. It rather depends on the decals you have. If you have a sign on the tender saying "BRITISH RAILWAYS" then malachite green would be correct, however, this should be post-war malachite green (P78)(a different shade to the pre-war one (P77)). Also, orange lining would be incorrect for this livery. If you have the BR emblem that is known among railway buffs as "the unicycling lion" (if you see it, you'll know what I mean) then it's been repainted and the correct colour would be pre 1954 BR locomotive green (P100). On the other hand you could have the late BR crest that consists of a circle with two bars poking out of either side. In this case the appropriate colour would be post 1954 BR locomotive green (P101).

Now the coaches: To go with a loco as late as the Bulleid Battle of Britain class you have two basic options. For a Southern Railways train, the colour would be post 1930 SR coach green (P84) or for a later BR(Southern Region) train you should use BR(S) coach green (P125). The repainting programme for coaches was a lot more patchy than that for the locos so it wasn't unususal to see coaches of both colours in the same train but, you'll want a nice smart consistent train so I'd go for the latter colour (P125). It's a nice shade of green too.
As for the lines, I think the kit instructions are correct. I've got a train of similar coaches on my layout and have just popped up to double check - no lines.

Hope this is helpful to you. If you'd like any more info please let me know.

[JohnRatzenberger]

Dazzled, thank you very much. I had, since I first posted, found the green mismatch due to the introduction dates of the engine and coaches. My engine decals are the 'unicycling lion' (assuming they are even useable).

I wish the websites/stores you provided had color charts. The only green rail paints I have are Humbrol acrylic #405 GWR/BR Green and Lifecolour acrylic #814 Std Loco Green. I do have Humbrol #409 Malachite Green but it seems that I should not use it.

If you had a pick, which would you use for "close enough" ? Although I may yet place an order for the correct paint -- I do see the possibility of getting some better transfers than all my old yellowed ones ...

[Dazzled]

Hi JRatz. If I were to go for "close enough" I'd pick the BR/GWR green as that is closer to the earlier green. If you're in the market for new decals then I'd recommend Fox Transfers. This page has lining decals suitable for BR(S) locos:

http://www.fox-transfers.co.uk/products ... 4277938399

The lining you'd need is for an unrebuilt (the UNrebuilt bit is very important) WC/BB/MN (West Country/Battle of Britain/Merchant Navy). The rebuilt locos in these classes have the air-smoothed fairings removed and so are a completely different shape. Make sure you go for 4mm/00 scale as the 7mm stuff is listed on the same page.

The main site here:

http://www.fox-transfers.co.uk/index.cg ... 4277938399

is somewhere you could get everything else from insignia, through numbers to nameplates. They're not cheap though.

[JohnRatzenberger]

Again, dazzled, thank you very much .... I shall have to get busy now, but I'm sure I'll be back with questions ...

[Dazzled]

You're most welcome JRatz. Happy to help.

[Ratch]

Ratch is your man. The green, I think, is Malachite Green. Suggest a PM to Ratch.

Malachite Green was the colour used on the Southern Railway (pre-B.R.). Under British Rail they would have been painted Brunswick Green, which is what they adopted from the GWR. As for the lining, I'm more of a Midland man so can't give a definitive answer

[JohnRatzenberger]

Well, today I got out my kits and started to work.



The locomotive will be the Airfix kitting of the 'Biggin Hill', but we're not going to get into that yet.

The first coach will be the Kitmaster/Rosebud #15 Corridor Brake 2nd. KM has kits for 4 coaches -- the boxes look similar, the parts look similar -- I think they are all maroon on the boxart, but they will come in either maroon or green. The kits are:
13 Corridor Composite
14 Corridor 2nd (with the Peco interior, be built as either Compartmented or Open)
15 Corridor 2nd Brake
28 Restaurant 1st

Here are the coach parts and instructions ....





Peco makes a set of interiors for the coach kits, but not the restaurant car which has a semi-interior anyway. The Peco kits are cardstock cut-outs that nicely fill the empty car bodies. There are people, luggage, books, all sorts of things.



I should tell you that I am not an expert on Kitmaster/Rosebud, Peco, British Rail, or anything, but I've had these a while and they are burning a hole on my workbench, so here we go ... Oh, yes, any/all help is welcome ....

Other than basic organizing, I started on the trucks today and already have a question.



The KM couplers are shown sitting on the inverted white dish. The instructions have them both assembled into the trucks with the rod pointing down, as I have shown them.

So, how does one couple two (or more) cars together ? Like I said, no expert here ....

PS: This is for fun, don't expect speed ....

[Dazzled]

Hi John
Strange looking couplings. It seems like the rod on one coupling drops into the hole on the next, one on top of the other. Perhaps there's a little up and down movement in the couplings when fitted. In practice, it looks like a coach would need to be lifted from the track to uncouple it although, as a static model, this wouldn't be an issue.

[JohnRatzenberger]

It's probable you are right, I won't know until I get them assembled. It sure looks odd. The kit does say that it will take two other style couplings -- Peco and Triang -- but does not include them. For a static model, I'd like mine to look "scale" although it's not really necessary.

On looking at the 'Biggin Hill', I find it interesting that the front truck has the exact same "KM" coupler facing forward, and has a scale coupler mounted on the buffer beam. However on the tender, there is the option for either a scale coupler or a working Peco coupler, both included.

I guess I'm going to have to sort this or I'll have the 'Biggin Hill' pushing the coaches ....

[DH-Drover]

I remember the "Spam Cans" on the boat trains at Newhaven in the forties and early fifties. Both my father and grandad worked for the Southern Railway/Region.

Dai

[MerlinJones]

I'm sure that, back in the day, you could buy couplings as standalone items. I expect that the same is true amongst railway hobbyist circles today.

Regards,
Bruce

[Dazzled]

I'm sure that, back in the day, you could buy couplings as standalone items. I expect that the same is true amongst railway hobbyist circles today.

Regards,
Bruce

You certainly can, in a mind-boggling variety of types.

The Peco Simplex coupling is still freely available as Peco are still going strong. The Triang coupling was a big, clumsy early version of the tension lock coupling. These developed over the years getting smaller and smaller, although they're still pretty obtrusive. The most common of these are made by Hornby and Bachmann. Another alternative is the "knuckle" coupler, the best of which are made by Kadee in the USA. These are very prototypical but require careful set up. There are also various types of three-links, autocouplers in a variety of styles and the European style of couplers with a lifting loop as seen on older HO models.

To be honest, especially considering that the kits are primarily intended for static disply, I'd stick with the kit couplings. They'll barely be visible on the finished models anyway and, under the circumstances, getting the coaches realistically close-coupled will make them look great. Just leave off the coupling from the rearmost coach bufferbeam.

[JohnRatzenberger]

To be honest, especially considering that the kits are primarily intended for static disply, I'd stick with the kit couplings. They'll barely be visible on the finished models anyway and, under the circumstances, getting the coaches realistically close-coupled will make them look great. Just leave off the coupling from the rearmost coach bufferbeam.

Yes, having poked around a bit, I took myself over in a corner and discussed getting a grip on things here. With the coaches diaphragms and buffers snugged up there is very little of the chain mechanism to be seen so I can simply fake it ...

[JohnRatzenberger]

It's not that I've done nothing, just watch paint dry ... Anyway, back to work on this ...

I using the Humbrol Acrylic rail colors, hand painted. Numerous coats for coverage. Brush marks. Oh well.



The sides, ends, top and bottom are painted. The decals are toast but I have some generic yellow letter sets and made up a serial number. They are a bit bigger but my othere choice was a bit smaller.

I'm OK with everything, except the grey on the two door panels on each side -- it seems a bit light compared to what the box shows ? It does not give color manufacturer or number in the instructions ....

I want to get to the point that I can gloss (or semi-gloss) the body, then put in the windows, do a testfit of the body parts, then start to fiddle/fit the interior.

One thing, on the Peco interiors, make a xerox copy of the interior sheets before you start taking out parts. There is a wealth of location and fold info left behind once a piece comes out of the sheet and it's handy to have that to look at.