Rob's Tonka *finished*

[rob_van_riel]

How will the upkeep bomb Aimer who is sat in the back seat, use his upkeep bomb aiming sight to line up on the towers on the dam?

I was sort of assuming the low level attack systems on a Tornado would deal with that. The basic machine is not entirely unsuited to such tasks

Things would have been different if that last Vulcan had still been on RAF inventory (it could probably have carried enough bombs for all three dams by itself in that cavernous bay), but since the only candidate airframe was at heart a dedicated low lever striker, I chose not to worry too much about the delivery stage.

[IronMan129]

If only I had read the original post properly!
This is a neat idea and one I like quite alot as I love whatif's!
Watching with interest!

[MarkyM607]

How will the upkeep bomb Aimer who is sat in the back seat, use his upkeep bomb aiming sight to line up on the towers on the dam?

I was sort of assuming the low level attack systems on a Tornado would deal with that. The basic machine is not entirely unsuited to such tasks

Things would have been different if that last Vulcan had still been on RAF inventory (it could probably have carried enough bombs for all three dams by itself in that cavernous bay), but since the only candidate airframe was at heart a dedicated low lever striker, I chose not to worry too much about the delivery stage.

A Vulcan with Bouncing Bombs!!!!!!!. Me thinks an idea is forming (unless it's pinching yours and I'll not bother!!).
(On a side note, if the Airfix Victor kit's bomb bay is an accurate representation it's MASSIVE, even makes the Vulcan's look small. How many could it have carried!? )

[rob_van_riel]

A Vulcan with Bouncing Bombs!!!!!!!. Me thinks an idea is forming (unless it's pinching yours and I'll not bother!!).

Vulcan is just a bit too big for me in 1/72; if I ever end up building one anyway, it will be a normal Vulcan. The odds of my ever owning a house with enough room that I can add another Vulcan just for giggles are about as good as those of the V-force going operational again
I'll be quite happy to leave that particular project to you

[MarkyM607]

A Vulcan with Bouncing Bombs!!!!!!!. Me thinks an idea is forming (unless it's pinching yours and I'll not bother!!).

Vulcan is just a bit too big for me in 1/72; if I ever end up building one anyway, it will be a normal Vulcan. The odds of my ever owning a house with enough room that I can add another Vulcan just for giggles are about as good as those of the V-force going operational again
I'll be quite happy to leave that particular project to you

Aww, now I have to do it!!. I already have four Vulcans, two on their wheels on a shelf and two in flight. I wonder if I can get enough upkeep weapons?... I have the Vulcan. Luckily I live at a nice place where I have two rooms essentially! . Mum doesn't mind models as long as they are in the two rooms!.

[rob_van_riel]

I wonder if I can get enough upkeep weapons?... I have the Vulcan.

If you have one, all it takes is a lump of rubber with a hole for resin to have a dozen
Seriously, if you don't want to mess with R&R yourself, get me one (possibly customised for the Vulcan) system, and I'll get you a bunch.

[MarkyM607]

I wonder if I can get enough upkeep weapons?... I have the Vulcan.

If you have one, all it takes is a lump of rubber with a hole for resin to have a dozen
Seriously, if you don't want to mess with R&R yourself, get me one (possibly customised for the Vulcan) system, and I'll get you a bunch.

I used to use car resin/hardener and clay or modelling clay to make a mould. I've made engine exhausts for an F-15 and Sea Harrier nose cones, I do have a detachable weapon on a Lanc I've built so I'll have a quick go and if no success I will probably take you up on your kind offer.

[rob_van_riel]

I used to use car resin/hardener and clay or modelling clay to make a mould. I've made engine exhausts for an F-15 and Sea Harrier nose cones, I do have a detachable weapon on a Lanc I've built so I'll have a quick go and if no success I will probably take you up on your kind offer.

Good luck, and if it doesn't work out, you know where to find me A Vulcan with a belly full of bouncers is something to look forward to.

[rob_van_riel]

I think I might be approaching the point where I've beaten the basic kit into submission; after the next round of filler and sandpaper, I'll prime it to look for trouble.

I'm getting just a bit frustrated with this kit, to be honest. If it weren't for the fact that I want to complete this bit of sillyness, rather than start over with another sacrificial Tornado kit, I would have binned this insult of a kit by now.

[rob_van_riel]

I've finally reached the point where I could close up the hull



I've also discovered that there are, in fact, some parts that fit: the transparencies are perfect, both in clarity and fit. We'll have a perfect view of a bare cockpit tub

With any luck, I'll be able to complete construction tomorrow, and send this thing to the paintshop.

[Gregers]

This is madder than a basket full of squirrels. I like it. Your problem of ground clearance. How about mounting the Bouncer in front of the main undercarriage and using a longer nose leg like the Navy F4's did?. Just food for thought.
Awesome build. Am watching with fascination.

All the best.

Greg

[rob_van_riel]

This is madder than a basket full of squirrels. I like it. Your problem of ground clearance. How about mounting the Bouncer in front of the main undercarriage and using a longer nose leg like the Navy F4's did?. Just food for thought.

There is some variation between the Tornado kits out there, some have more clearance than others, and I sort of bet it would fit. By the time I realised this particular combination of parts was going to be an issue, I was mentally set on very close to the main wheels. Note that the fuselage is narrower ahead of the mains, so I'm not altogether convinced that wouldn't cause a whole load of different problems. I'd also be a bit concerned that due to the geometry of mounting the bomb near the mains, while extending the nose wheel, I'd have to extend the nose wheel by a fairly large multiple of the clearance I need to create. This could turn rather wacky in it's own right. I'll take a quick peek at it though, I might have a long Phantom leg lying around somewhere. No idea how that would fold into the Tornado's wheel well though..

It would certainly have had the benefit of making all that sillyness more visible

[gnomemeansgnome]

Would that front undercarriage not have a telescoping oleo mechanism, a bit like the P-47 Thunderbolt? I bet that would take care of the clearance issue.

[rob_van_riel]

I just did some measurements to accompany my wake up mug of tea.

Just to check the results of playing around with the front leg, I measured clearance just ahead of the main gear bays (ie, where the bomb would end up in that scenario). Since the main gears are a pest to dry-fit, I stuck the Upkeep into the space between the wells; it's close enough to the height of the main gear for this test, and is conveniently round like the wheels..
With the original Tornado front leg (18mm length) I got 18.5mm clearance; with the long leg of a Phantom (30.1mm length) this increased to 21.8mm. Roughly a 1:4 ratio between leg extension applied and clearance gained.

Given that things were already quite close, substituting a Phantom leg might well have given me the extra clearance I needed. However, this assumed the bomb ending up in front of the main wheels. Unfortunately, that won't work. The width of the fuselage between and behind the main wheels is almost exactly the width of the upkeep system. In front of the wheels, the fuselage is significantly more narrow. There's no room for the bomb there

[rob_van_riel]

I figured the Tornado had (ahem..) finally earned it's upkeep, so I stuck it on. As you can see, it actually has ground clearance. Sub millimeter amounts of it, but it's there. It can even handle a few degrees (20?) of nose-up attitude before the wheels start to have ground clearance, instead of the bomb. With an insanely smooth runway, this should fly.



Although this can't be seen in the picture, there is equally minimal clearance between the weapon and the fuselage; I know this only because the weapon can rotate freely..