Klear vs Microsol/set

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MackemPete
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Klear vs Microsol/set

Post by MackemPete »

I can imagine you guys have had the debate on this matter before so I'll apologise now.
I've been reading the faq's on decaling and I'm still stuck!
If I use the NEW Klear should I allow the 1st coat to dry then apply the decal to a wet coat?
Or should I buy sol and set and have a flap on about them destroying my decal as it says this can happen in the faq's?
Cheers
Pete
MerlinJones

Re: Klear vs Microsol/set

Post by MerlinJones »

Always create a glossy coat on your model, before any decalling.
Klear is (probably) the most effective material for this, taking into account just how good it is, being easy to apply and cheap.
Let the gloss coat set before going any further. If set, or 'cured', (and you didn't even know it was poorly), it is unlikely to react to Microset or Microsol.

The next step would depend upon the decals being used, as some don't react well to Microset/sol.
To date, no decal reacts to Klear, so it is safe.

For thick, unweildy decals, (such as Academy), you're probably better off going for Microset and Microsol. These are good products.
For your average modern decal, on a non-corrugated surface, Klear is probably your best bet.

Note that, if you do use wet Klear to apply your decal to, be aware of where that puddle of Klear goes. You won't want it to set, in a hard lump, on your model somewhere.

I believe people use Klear as a cheaper and, perhaps more importantly, more readily available aid than the Microset/sol liquids.

Regards,
Bruce
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MackemPete
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Re: Klear vs Microsol/set

Post by MackemPete »

Nice one Bruce. I think I'll try the double Klear method. I'm just a bit worried as there are 2 big 'bumps'( sorry don't know any technical terms yet!) where the wing roundals go on my new Spitfire.
Cheers
Pete
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mattbacon
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Re: Klear vs Microsol/set

Post by mattbacon »

Never use Microsol/set AND Klear - they will react and turn into sticky goo. (ie don’t put down a puddle of Klear UNDER the decal and Microsummat on top. It’s worse when they are both liquid, but even dried Klear will react if you leave a puddle of Microsol on top of it. Klear will also go white/cloudy if you leave standing _water_ on it, but don’t worry... this goes away again when it dries out.

bestest,
M.
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MackemPete
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Re: Klear vs Microsol/set

Post by MackemPete »

Thanks for the tip M.
Cheers
Pete
MerlinJones

Re: Klear vs Microsol/set

Post by MerlinJones »

MackemPete wrote:Nice one Bruce. I think I'll try the double Klear method. I'm just a bit worried as there are 2 big 'bumps'( sorry don't know any technical terms yet!) where the wing roundals go on my new Spitfire.
Klear will manage stuff like bumps and panel lines, raised and engraved. As it dries, it will pull the decal down onto the surface with it.

Of course, some surface details are best removed and replaced after decalling, or added after decalling. I'm thinking of control horns, some wing fences and pylons.

Regards,
Bruce
m1ks
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Re: Klear vs Microsol/set

Post by m1ks »

Provided the Klear is set, Micro sol and set will be fine, i use them all the time in this combination and never yet had a reaction.
Personally for Academy decals i'd say you need something more aggressive still than Micro set and sol, they are so thick a skilled butcher could slice them crosswise and make ten decals from one.
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flakmonkey
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Re: Klear vs Microsol/set

Post by flakmonkey »

You're safe enough with Microsol on your average kit decal. Whilst repeatedly applying it can destroy your decal, that's not how to use it. Brush a little on thinly and evenly, and in a short while the decal will pucker and wrinkle alarmingly. This is normal. Don't be tempted to touch the decal or launch a rescue attempt. After half an hour or so it will smooth back out as it conforms tightly to the surface. Only once the decal appears dry should you apply more Microsol, which sometimes you need to do when decalling around complex shapes. Always test decal solutions on spare decals from the sheet you will be using. Some aftermarket decals (and occasionally some kit decals) will be wrecked by Microsol if you're not careful. That testing applies double in capital letters to the stronger solutions such as the two Misters and Daco - they're strong enough to dissolve paint if used hamfistedly, let alone decals..
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Dirkpitt289
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Re: Klear vs Microsol/set

Post by Dirkpitt289 »

I figure I'd add my 2 cents to the topic if I may. What i do is spray a fine cote of Klear (Future in my area) let it set or cure. Then I apply the decals using one or more of the micro products depending on the situation. After the decals have set then I apply another clear (future) cote to seal in the decals. Once that is dry I apply a dull or matt cote if the situation calls for it. The reason I do the second cote of clear (future) is because although I was told you can apply a dull or matt cote directly over the decals I've had bad results doing that. What seems to happen is that the decals end up with a white dusty and or cracked spider web look to them. The second cote of future seals the decals and protects them. Granted this added step adds to the build but in the end there will be no regret over ruined decals.

Again just my 2 cents
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tecdes1
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Re: Klear vs Microsol/set

Post by tecdes1 »

On my first model in November thought I knew more than the experts & refused to use Klear. Soon found how wrong I could be.

First I Klear all finished coats of paint before going to the next area to paint (ie not between coats of the same colour) as it protects that finished coat. It also I have found protects the paint when applying masking tape or blue or white tack for camoflage. It makes it easy to remove & does not leave a mark. I apply 2 coats of Klear each time. Also makes finishing the model with bits to be added after painting much easier as it protects the paint.

Also I apply the decals direct on to the Klear (after the Klear has dried well) after applying a coat of Micro Sol or some times just water. The shine of Klear masks the transparent ring around each decal. When all is finished I apply just a single coat of Vallejo satin coat which is just a fraction up on gloss from matt varnish.

Sounds messy to me to apply Klear in patches for decals but we all have our own ways which works for each. All the above takes time but I have certainly improved dramatically ( compared to the first model !! It is awful but stands as a reminder on the shelf.)

Laurie
MerlinJones

Re: Klear vs Microsol/set

Post by MerlinJones »

tecdes1 wrote: ...Also I apply the decals direct on to the Klear (after the Klear has dried well) after applying a coat of Micro Sol or some times just water.
To be clear, MicroSol is the stronger of the two Micro solutions and can disSOLve, or at least soften, decals. Some finer decals react very quickly to Microsol and will wrinkle and stick like muck to a blanket.
If you apply your decal to a patch of MicroSol, you may find that you suddenly lose the ability to move it into position.

Water and MicroSet do not cause this difficulty.

Regards,
Bruce
tecdes1
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Re: Klear vs Microsol/set

Post by tecdes1 »

Interesting Bruce as I have only used Microsol & not had any problems except chasing the decals around the model. Actually last time I applied them I only used Microsol as I found the water applied to the Klear puddled off to a different postion. After saying that I take the decal on its backing direct from the water bath to the model so perhaps the water & microsol dilute. Any way that method is working well for me.

But I have only up to to now used Decals from Airfix & Revell. For future reference which manufacturers decals can cause the problems ?

Must get some MicroSet. Can you use these in conjunction with each other ie MicroSet under the decal & soften the decal with MicroSol on top ?

Laurie
tecdes1
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Re: Klear vs Microsol/set

Post by tecdes1 »

Thanks "Brews"

Got this info which gives a direct explanation. The last one is interesting for old decals.

"Micro Sol setting solution is for the most difficult irregular surfaces you find on models. It completely softens the Microscale Decal allowing it to drape down onto the surface of the model conforming perfectly and without distortion. You can get the most amazing results in seemingly impossible places, because Micro Sol actually makes the decal part of the paint. For that reason you should coat Micro Sol on for only a few seconds and then leave it alone, it does the work. Do not touch until dry as the decal is very soft at this stage and could be easily damaged. "

"Micro Set is a very versatile decal setting solution that does several things to the Microscale Decals to improve application. Micro Set should be applied to the surface of the model where you will be sliding off the decal. Micro Set prepares the surface with special wetting agents that cuts the oils in new paint and converts the adhesive on the back of the decal to a stronger and more lasting one. And finally, Micro Set slightly softens the decals film to make it more flexible so that it can conform better to the model's surface. Better adhesion by the decal to the model prevents tiny air bells from occurring and results in an invisible carrier film or the so called 'painted on look'. "

"Everyone should have Micro Liquid Decal Film who models and uses decals. Especially if you have been at it for some time. The typical decal scrap box is not the best place to store decals. Exposed to air, sunlight, and moisture, great swings of temperature or general abuse, and decals will go bad. Or maybe you just always had trouble putting on thin stripes. Micro Liquid Decal Film solves all of those problems and makes a decal which for whatever reason is bad, work again just like new almost immediately. Of course if you have already put it in water it is too late. So if you have some old decals you really have to use, coat them with Micro Liquid Decal Film to be sure. Or if there is any indication that you might have a problem, don't take a chance, you can solve the problem on the spot. Simply take a small brush and coat the image on the decal you want to use. Allow to dry for 20 minutes. Apply the decal as usual. It's that simple.
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nightrider2k
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Re: Klear vs Microsol/set

Post by nightrider2k »

Hi all,
Unfortunately I'm a late starter as far as the use of 'Klear' is concerned, however, I've monitored a lot of forum posts regarding this and appreciate that the 'old' Klear product is no longer available in the UK.
I've used the 'Pledge Klear' (the milky coloured one) for a while now, and it appears to mimic, what the old stuff did (to a certain extent), so have stuck to it.
I've seen bottles of the old Klear on ebay for up to £20 :shock:
Whilst I've been looking around the department stores, I've been on the lookout for alternatives, and have recently found this in our local B&Q DIY store:-
http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?i ... an&x=0&y=0;
it only cost £2.48!
Now I've used this on a couple of recent builds and it appears to be doing the same job.
The product has no colouring, so is a clear liquid and dries to a hard shiny finish on both paintwork and canopies. It has a kind on amonia smell to it.
For all you chemists out there that know what the heck these are, here's some of the ingredients (incase you can match them up with any of the active ingredients that makes Klear what it is) = Polyacrylate Polymer; Glycol Ether Solvent; Nonionicsurfactants; Bromo; Nitropropane; Diol Chloromethylisothiazolone; Methylisothiazolone.
I'd be interested if anyone else has tried this, or maybe you guys that have a lot of experience in the use of Klear could do a comparison test and let us all know......for the sake od £2.48 surely its worth a test, to find that elusive cheapo Klear replacement?
Regards
Boz
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AndrewR
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Re: Klear vs Microsol/set

Post by AndrewR »

nightrider2k wrote:Hi all,
Unfortunately I'm a late starter as far as the use of 'Klear' is concerned, however, I've monitored a lot of forum posts regarding this and appreciate that the 'old' Klear product is no longer available in the UK.
I've used the 'Pledge Klear' (the milky coloured one) for a while now, and it appears to mimic, what the old stuff did (to a certain extent), so have stuck to it.
I've seen bottles of the old Klear on ebay for up to £20 :shock:
Whilst I've been looking around the department stores, I've been on the lookout for alternatives, and have recently found this in our local B&Q DIY store:-
http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?i ... an&x=0&y=0;
it only cost £2.48!
Now I've used this on a couple of recent builds and it appears to be doing the same job.
The product has no colouring, so is a clear liquid and dries to a hard shiny finish on both paintwork and canopies. It has a kind on amonia smell to it.
For all you chemists out there that know what the heck these are, here's some of the ingredients (incase you can match them up with any of the active ingredients that makes Klear what it is) = Polyacrylate Polymer; Glycol Ether Solvent; Nonionicsurfactants; Bromo; Nitropropane; Diol Chloromethylisothiazolone; Methylisothiazolone.
I'd be interested if anyone else has tried this, or maybe you guys that have a lot of experience in the use of Klear could do a comparison test and let us all know......for the sake od £2.48 surely its worth a test, to find that elusive cheapo Klear replacement?
Hi Boz

It's probably designed to do much the same thing, although from the look of the spray bottle, it's a much thinner consistency than Klear/Future/Pledge, which is more viscous than water.

Polyacrylate polymer (the clear coat) is the same general class of ingredient as in Klear/Future/Pledge, which also contains glycol ether as a solvent. The nonionic surfactants are surface tension reducing agents (like soaps) which means that it spreads out on surfaces instead of forming droplets.

Based on what you have said, it's probably intended to do much the same thing to floors, and so it should work on plastic models too. It might not be quite as good at taking out scratches on transparencies though, as it will probably form a thinner film on the surface. You might need multiple coats to do the biz.

Why don't you post a few pictures of your builds using this stuff, so we can see how it looks?

cheers

Andrew
Up in the Great White North
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