RLM paint colors and painting questions.

[PropWash]

Hey guys,

I am having a real tough time finishing a Ju-87G-2 I've nearly finished. I'm using my airbrush for the second time (the first time, and last airplane model, didn't go so well) and have been quite pleased with the results so far. But I've had a few problems which are stalling the completion of this build.

1. I'm using Mission Models acrylic airbrush paints (first time) on this build. They are quite nice to work with. But the RLM colors, applied by airbrush, aren't looking like what I am used to seeing. I'm doing a standard Luftwaffe camo scheme for the Eastern Front. This calls for the camo to be in RLM 70 and 71 colors. Because I always used a brush, and Model Master enamels, the darker RLM 70 really stood out against the RLM 71 background (or base color). But now, with airbrushing the colors look almost identical. I've sprayed several coats of the RLM 70 on the model and you just don't see that much of a difference. Is that really the case?

2. I've used blue 3M masking tape before on other models and it has not been a problem. On this one, however, it keeps ruining the paint or leaving a residue. This has caused me to repaint and try everything again at least twice. Is this something to do with airbrushing, the type of paint (brand?), or something else? Right now my model is sitting on the shelf, nicely painted, except it doesn't have the RLM 70 camo because I'm afraid to muck it up yet again.

3. Should I just try and freehand the splinter camo? I don't particularly want to, but will at this point. BTW, I did look at several of the masking threads in this topic. Don't know if I can do those methods at the moment.

Any thoughts or suggestions are always appreciated. Thanks!!

[fredk]

1. I'm using Mission Models acrylic airbrush paints (first time) on this build. They are quite nice to work with. But the RLM colors, applied by airbrush, aren't looking like what I am used to seeing. I'm doing a standard Luftwaffe camo scheme for the Eastern Front. This calls for the camo to be in RLM 70 and 71 colors. Because I always used a brush, and Model Master enamels, the darker RLM 70 really stood out against the RLM 71 background (or base color). But now, with airbrushing the colors look almost identical. I've sprayed several coats of the RLM 70 on the model and you just don't see that much of a difference. Is that really the case?

Yes, they are very close, so much so that for years many people thought Ju.87s were painted a single colour. Airfix even suggested just using one shade of dark green on their 1/48 and 1/24 Ju.87s for many years

[fredk]

2. I've used blue 3M masking tape before on other models and it has not been a problem. On this one, however, it keeps ruining the paint or leaving a residue. This has caused me to repaint and try everything again at least twice. Is this something to do with airbrushing, the type of paint (brand?), or something else? Right now my model is sitting on the shelf, nicely painted, except it doesn't have the RLM 70 camo because I'm afraid to muck it up yet again.

3. Should I just try and freehand the splinter camo? I don't particularly want to, but will at this point. BTW, I did look at several of the masking threads in this topic. Don't know if I can do those methods at the moment.

2. It might be the brand of paint. Are you letting the paint dry and cure, not just dry, the paint needs some to cure, to really harden.
Try switching to Tamiya masking tape. Since I switched my masking has been about 90% trouble free. To remove residue try using WD40 on a Q-tip

3. you can do free hand if your hand is steady

[Impisi]

ohh - there are several books and dicussions about correct RLM colors. There was a discussion about RLM colors on ww2aircraft.net in which this image was presented:



I'm not saying this is correct, but just looking at this you can see there are several interpretations about RLM colors. Well and then, different colors and/or paints react different on sun, rain, weather over all.

[iggie]

I agree with Fred (and Martin's very useful chart) that there doesn't seem to be much difference between RLM 70 and 71, and in fact the first time I painted the Luftwaffe splinter scheme on a 109 I thought I'd got the wrong colours as there was hardly any difference... So I used a different green to make it a little more obvious
I would further agree regarding the masking tape; unless the base colour has been sealed with a protective varnish or similar, then I will only use Tamiya tapes.
Freehand application of a splinter scheme will be hard without masking, brush or airbrush

[Impisi]

I'm sorry I've overseen the other 2 ... for the second question: there is an old painter trick for runnings; after masking, you fist paint in that color that the masking shold protect, this in most cases does close the gap and prevent from runnings. Downside is, the coat gets thicker. The other trick with acrylics and an airbrush is, you spray in several layers, very thin layers, not covering layers. In between let the layers dry. This way you dont have your paint floating and you dont have runnings. Or, the third way I would agree with using a better tape like Tamiya tape

The only real alternatives for Tamiya tape are from my point of view KIP Smooth-Tec or KIP Washi-Tec tapes most other masking tapes are often not worth the effort. I mainly use the "good" tape only for masking the edges and then fill the areas with cheap tape and i.e. newspaper.

[PropWash]

Yes, they are very close, so much so that for years many people thought Ju.87s were painted a single colour. Airfix even suggested just using one shade of dark green on their 1/48 and 1/24 Ju.87s for many years

Wow. That's surprising. I almost wish it were the single color as it looks rather nice at the moment (this coming from an airbrushing novice ).

Thank you for answering this, and my other questions, Fred. I appreciate it.

[PropWash]

2. I've used blue 3M masking tape before on other models and it has not been a problem. On this one, however, it keeps ruining the paint or leaving a residue. This has caused me to repaint and try everything again at least twice. Is this something to do with airbrushing, the type of paint (brand?), or something else? Right now my model is sitting on the shelf, nicely painted, except it doesn't have the RLM 70 camo because I'm afraid to muck it up yet again.

3. Should I just try and freehand the splinter camo? I don't particularly want to, but will at this point. BTW, I did look at several of the masking threads in this topic. Don't know if I can do those methods at the moment.

2. It might be the brand of paint. Are you letting the paint dry and cure, not just dry, the paint needs some to cure, to really harden.
Try switching to Tamiya masking tape. Since I switched my masking has been about 90% trouble free. To remove residue try using WD40 on a Q-tip

3. you can do free hand if your hand is steady

After the first paint job, in which I felt the paint was dry (not cured), I experienced the problems I mentioned. So I did another repaint of the model, and waited 2-3 days (I can learn! ) before trying the RLM 70 sections. And again, the tape was a problem - even though I barely pressed it onto the model.

Another repaint, another 2-3 days, tried really thin strands of the tape to denote the camo sections and tried brushing the airbrush paint on. Yeah..that didn't work well - and the tape problem remained.

So, yet another repaint and this is where I stopped and sought counsel.

My wife and I need to go to Hobby Lobby soon, and I know they sell Tamiya tape. Sounds like that's what I need to try.

[PropWash]

Impisi: Thank you for answering and for the chart / information. Using the chart, I would say my colors are very close to what is shown under the "Smith et al" column. When airbrushed on the model, they almost look identical. There is just a slight and subtle difference that I can see.

I also appreciate your additional painting suggestions and endorsement for using Tamiya tape.

[PropWash]

I agree with Fred (and Martin's very useful chart) that there doesn't seem to be much difference between RLM 70 and 71, and in fact the first time I painted the Luftwaffe splinter scheme on a 109 I thought I'd got the wrong colours as there was hardly any difference... So I used a different green to make it a little more obvious
I would further agree regarding the masking tape; unless the base colour has been sealed with a protective varnish or similar, then I will only use Tamiya tapes.
Freehand application of a splinter scheme will be hard without masking, brush or airbrush

Glad I'm not alone in seeing the colors like this. It is such a difference in how paint looks when applying it with a brush compared to application via airbrush. Such a difference.

Thank you very much for weighing in and commenting.

[PropWash]

Okay, I got the Tamiya masking tapes and proceeded to prepare the model for painting the splinter camo with RLM 70. Here's how it looked before painting:



I had great expectations as the painting has, so far, been a real problem for me. I let dry overnight and took the model inside to remove one little section of tape to see how it did. ARGH! This is what I found:



You can see the mottled appearance on the horizontal stabilizer. This area was completely covered by the tape (see previous pic). I honestly don't know what to do at this point. And again, the base color (RLM 71) had cured for the past five days before I masked it for this paint job.

Any ideas for me to try? Or ideas for what I'm doing wrong?

Thanks guys.

[AndrewR]

Is the weather hot and humid right now? That can really affect airbrushing and paint drying. (We are sweltering in Ottawa right now!).

[PropWash]

Is the weather hot and humid right now? That can really affect airbrushing and paint drying. (We are sweltering in Ottawa right now!).

That it is. It's my first Summer in Tennessee and the humidity is impressive (I moved from the West Coast) and is something I've not really had to deal with before. I have been moving the model inside the house to dry as I felt the A/C would temper the outside (garage) heat and humidity. Thanks, Andrew.

[Impisi]

I'm sorry I've never had something like this happen. If it is humidity, then it could dry out again, if you lucky.

[iggie]

Hmmm... That's not something I've experienced, but then again we rarely get the temperatures you guys get over there! A/C shouldn't hurt the paint, as most not only reduce the temperature but dry the air as well but it certainly looks as though it's a climate issue