Red Arrows 60th Anniversary and World Aerobatic Team GB *On the Calendar!*

[iggie]

Just a thought for a possible GB next year...2024 will see the Reds flying in their 60th year, having completed nearly 5000 displays in 57 countries.
Gnats or Hawks in Red Arrows liveries, any scale.
Any takers?

[Stuart]

Yeah, go on then!

[JohnRatzenberger]

While retaining the Red Arrow honorific why not broaden the scope to any display team aircraft ?

[PaulBradley]

I am surprised to see that we’ve never done a GB for the Arrows or any teams. Much as it is a very special occasion for Brits, I’m with John in thinking this might have an even greater appeal if it is broadened in scope a bit - and I’m sure there will be a special World aerobatic team meet to celebrate, as has happened in the past, so we could match that.

In either case, I would join as I have a couple of Arrows kits in the stash.

[mil 24]

hi all
i may be up for this one if we open it up for all team

dave

[Andy Dighton]

I'm up for this, either Red Arrows or display teams in general.

[iggie]

Yep, I'm agreeable to opening it up to all display teams (I wonder if the Cuban airforce had one...) if for no other reason than I have an Academy F16 in the Thunderbirds scheme as well as a Red Arrow or two

[wokka]

Now let me think, Italian Tricolori, French Magisters or Alphajets, Swiss F5E's or Pilatus PC-7, Royal Navy Wildcats. I'm possibly in but with what?

[wokka]

Just a thought, a lot of air forces operate a single display aircraft by type e.g, 7 Sqn display a single Chinnook, the Germans display a single Typhoon, shouldn't this GB be for just teams that have two or more aircraft otherwise it will be virtually a free for all.

[iggie]

Just a thought, a lot of air forces operate a single display aircraft by type e.g, 7 Sqn display a single Chinnook, the Germans display a single Typhoon, shouldn't this GB be for just teams that have two or more aircraft otherwise it will be virtually a free for all.

Agreed, although I'm happy widening the scope to include other display teams, the emphasis must be on 'teams' and not single (or even duo for my part) display aircraft. Teams from history will be allowed so that opens up the choice even further

[Andy Dighton]

Just a thought, a lot of air forces operate a single display aircraft by type e.g, 7 Sqn display a single Chinnook, the Germans display a single Typhoon, shouldn't this GB be for just teams that have two or more aircraft otherwise it will be virtually a free for all.

Agreed, although I'm happy widening the scope to include other display teams, the emphasis must be on 'teams' and not single (or even duo for my part) display aircraft. Teams from history will be allowed so that opens up the choice even further

Now, if only I could find a Canberra T4 for the Green Marrows.

[iggie]

If you'll forgive a cut'n'paste from Wikipedia, a possibly incomplete history of RAF teams:

In 1925, No. 32 Squadron RAF flew an air display six nights a week entitled "London Defended" at the British Empire Exhibition. Similar to the display they had done the previous year, when the aircraft were painted black, it consisted of a night-time air display over the Wembley Exhibition flying RAF Sopwith Snipes which were painted red for the display and fitted with white lights on the wings, tail, and fuselage. The display involved firing blank ammunition into the stadium crowds and dropping pyrotechnics from the aeroplanes to simulate shrapnel from guns on the ground. Explosions on the ground also produced the effect of bombs being dropped into the stadium by the aeroplanes. One of the pilots in the display was Flying Officer C. W. A. Scott, who later became famous for breaking three England–Australia solo flight records and winning the MacRobertson Air Race with co-pilot Tom Campbell Black in 1934.[4][5]

In 1947, the first jet team of three de Havilland Vampires came from RAF Odiham Fighter Wing. Various teams flew the Vampire, and in 1950, No. 72 Squadron was flying a team of seven. No. 54 Squadron became the first RAF jet formation team to use smoke trails. Vampires were replaced by Gloster Meteors, No. 66 Squadron developing a formation team of six aircraft.

Hawker Hunter aircraft were first used for aerobatics teams in 1955, when No. 54 Squadron flew a formation of four.

The official RAF team was provided by No. 111 Squadron in 1956, and for the first time, the aircraft had a special colour scheme, which was an all-black finish. After a demonstration in France, they were hailed as "Les Fleches Noires" and from then on known as the Black Arrows. This team became the first team to fly a five-Hunter formation. In 1958, the Black Arrows performed a loop and barrel roll of 22 Hunters, a world record for the greatest number of aircraft looped in formation. The Black Arrows were the premier team until 1961, when the Blue Diamonds (No. 92 Squadron) continued their role, flying 16 blue Hunters.

In 1960, the Tigers (No. 74 Squadron) were re-equipped with the supersonic English Electric Lightning and performed wing-overs and rolls with nine aircraft in tight formation. They sometimes gave co-ordinated displays with the Blue Diamonds. Yet another aerobatics team was formed in 1960 by No. 56 Squadron, the Firebirds, with nine red and silver Lightnings.

In 1964, the Red Pelicans, flying six BAC Jet Provost T Mk 4s, assumed the role of the RAF's leading display team. In that same year, a team of five yellow Gnat trainers from No 4 Flying Training School displayed at the Farnborough Airshow. This team became known as the Yellowjacks after Flight Lieutenant Lee Jones's call sign, "Yellowjack".

[Andy Dighton]

If you'll forgive a cut'n'paste from Wikipedia, a possibly incomplete history of RAF teams:

In 1925, No. 32 Squadron RAF flew an air display six nights a week entitled "London Defended" at the British Empire Exhibition. Similar to the display they had done the previous year, when the aircraft were painted black, it consisted of a night-time air display over the Wembley Exhibition flying RAF Sopwith Snipes which were painted red for the display and fitted with white lights on the wings, tail, and fuselage. The display involved firing blank ammunition into the stadium crowds and dropping pyrotechnics from the aeroplanes to simulate shrapnel from guns on the ground. Explosions on the ground also produced the effect of bombs being dropped into the stadium by the aeroplanes. One of the pilots in the display was Flying Officer C. W. A. Scott, who later became famous for breaking three England–Australia solo flight records and winning the MacRobertson Air Race with co-pilot Tom Campbell Black in 1934.[4][5]

In 1947, the first jet team of three de Havilland Vampires came from RAF Odiham Fighter Wing. Various teams flew the Vampire, and in 1950, No. 72 Squadron was flying a team of seven. No. 54 Squadron became the first RAF jet formation team to use smoke trails. Vampires were replaced by Gloster Meteors, No. 66 Squadron developing a formation team of six aircraft.

Hawker Hunter aircraft were first used for aerobatics teams in 1955, when No. 54 Squadron flew a formation of four.

The official RAF team was provided by No. 111 Squadron in 1956, and for the first time, the aircraft had a special colour scheme, which was an all-black finish. After a demonstration in France, they were hailed as "Les Fleches Noires" and from then on known as the Black Arrows. This team became the first team to fly a five-Hunter formation. In 1958, the Black Arrows performed a loop and barrel roll of 22 Hunters, a world record for the greatest number of aircraft looped in formation. The Black Arrows were the premier team until 1961, when the Blue Diamonds (No. 92 Squadron) continued their role, flying 16 blue Hunters.

In 1960, the Tigers (No. 74 Squadron) were re-equipped with the supersonic English Electric Lightning and performed wing-overs and rolls with nine aircraft in tight formation. They sometimes gave co-ordinated displays with the Blue Diamonds. Yet another aerobatics team was formed in 1960 by No. 56 Squadron, the Firebirds, with nine red and silver Lightnings.

In 1964, the Red Pelicans, flying six BAC Jet Provost T Mk 4s, assumed the role of the RAF's leading display team. In that same year, a team of five yellow Gnat trainers from No 4 Flying Training School displayed at the Farnborough Airshow. This team became known as the Yellowjacks after Flight Lieutenant Lee Jones's call sign, "Yellowjack".

That's a very incomplete history and doesn't even scratch the surface of RAF team history.
An excellent resource id the book "The History of RAF Aerobatic Teams from 1920. Smoke On.....Go!" by David Watkins.
Although, even though it's probably the best book on the subject, it does contradict itself in places.

[fredk]

x

[JohnRatzenberger]

I think the definition of team is two or more, such as team of horses, etc. Although I would defer on making it 3 (it is/was a valid formation) - up to King Solomon, er, the GBL ...

I do not think we want to go down the route of multiple country teams of 1-2 a/c of different types as I believe Wokka was discussing.

The question in my mind is should they be "country" or "service" teams not squadron level and should they have special markings.